advice on what to do with house

[StEt0417]

A quick background before I get to my question . We filed Ch.7 over a year ago and recieved our discharge papers 1yr ago. We then decided to try and short sale the house so that we could get our names off the property and not worry about maintaing. We decied to move out of state for a year to try something different. However we moved back. Our BK is still on going, its turns out while in the short sale process the trustee never closed the case. I guess she is trying to collect a tax refund that was exempt. Anyways our realtor said she spoke with our attorney and they have to stop the short sale and back off of it until the bk is taken care of. She was told its difficult and its going to be awhile. Waiting to hear back from our attorney. Our realtor said we should just move back into the house. I asked about renting it out but she didnt touch on that. My husband doesnt want to move back in because he feels like its a slap in the face but I feel like its a place to be able to save $$ to be able to have a savings and better than spending $25g a year on rent!

My question is can you rent the house? The bank never forecloused on it. They filed the orginally petition 3 months after we stopped paying in 2010. We lived there for over a year not paying before we decided to move and file ch.7 The house is still in our names and the bank never did anything and cannot do anything since the BK case is still open and who knows how long that will be, it doesnt look like its going to close anytime soon. Th city still sends us notices that we need to main the lawn and make sure its clean otherwise they will fine us, so we have been paying a guy to mow the lawn every couple weeks. I wasnt sure if you could legally rent out the house, technically its not inforeclousre so shouldnt it be ok? I would rather live in but my husband and I need to talk about it and talk with our attorney before making a decision. Just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on the subject.

[despritfreya]

If the property has not been abandoned by your Trustee there is a possibility that any rents you collect will have to be turned over to him/her. If the home is "exempt" I might argue that the rents belong to you but I am not sure since a homestead exemption does not normally extend to the collection of rents.

It sounds like you need to get the property abandoned by the Trustee. Once abandoned you can complete the short sale or do whatever you wish. Discuss this with your attorney. We typically ask the Trustee to issue a Notice of Abandonment when we know there is nothing in it for the bk estate. Most Trustees comply with our request.

Des.

[StEt0417]

When we went to the 341 meeting the attorney said they abanoded the property. IN the court notices the trustee said she forgot to ask us about our furture tax refund and that seems to be the issue, she wants to try and collect it.

[despritfreya]

When we went to the 341 meeting the attorney said they abanoded the property.

Saying they abandoned it and actually abandoning can be 2 different things. Did the Trustee file a Notice of Abandoment for the property? If he/she did then, depending upon your local procedure, the property was removed from the bk estate 14 days after the Notice was filed. If the property was removed then you are free to do with it as you please. The closing of your case is not relevant as it relates to this property once it was abandoned. You need to obtain a copy of the Notice of Abandonment (and the Order if such is issued in your jurisdiction).

Des.

[StEt0417]

Saying they abandoned it and actually abandoning can be 2 different things. Did the Trustee file a Notice of Abandoment for the property? If he/she did then, depending upon your local procedure, the property was removed from the bk estate 14 days after the Notice was filed. If the property was removed then you are free to do with it as you please. The closing of your case is not relevant as it relates to this property once it was abandoned. You need to obtain a copy of the Notice of Abandonment (and the Order if such is issued in your jurisdiction).

Des.

I just looked at the paper I revieved from the courts a year ago and it says It is ordered, The debtor is granted a discharge. The title of the document says Discharge of Debtors. From my understand we went to the 341 meeting our attorney said everything was fine, house was abandoned, they even said it in court but we didnt recieve a letter saying that the property is abandoned. The Trustee then filed a case 1 year later to collect the tax refund (objection to assests) we were getting that year. We had a 341 in Nov.
I will have to check with my attorney and the house

[keepsmiling]

I'm just curious... how much was the refund?

[tobee43]

I just looked at the paper I revieved from the courts a year ago and it says It is ordered, The debtor is granted a discharge. The title of the document says Discharge of Debtors. From my understand we went to the 341 meeting our attorney said everything was fine, house was abandoned, they even said it in court but we didnt recieve a letter saying that the property is abandoned. The Trustee then filed a case 1 year later to collect the tax refund (objection to assests) we were getting that year. We had a 341 in Nov.
I will have to check with my attorney and the house

and see if the order was issued for no distribution and abandoned by the trustee...that's the second order you need closing your case. your discharge of debtors is one order, the close is a different animal.

[despritfreya]

The Trustee then filed a case 1 year later to collect the tax refund (objection to assests) we were getting that year. We had a 341 in Nov.

Now I am confused. Did you just have your 341 or was it November, 2011? You indicate that the Trustee filed something 1 year later. What was that? Was your case closed and he filed a Motion to Reopen?

Abandonment happens either by the Trustee filing a Notice or the closing of the case, whichever happens first (you can also seek an abandonment but that is a different issue). If your case was prevously closed and then reopened I am not sure if the reopening for the purpose of dealing with a tax refund sets aside the abandonment. If that is what happened, my gut says it does not.

Des.

[StEt0417]

I'm just curious... how much was the refund?

4g, which we used to move out of state. You would think they would have said something at the 341 meeting or emailed the attorney but nothing until now

[StEt0417]

Now I am confused. Did you just have your 341 or was it November, 2011? You indicate that the Trustee filed something 1 year later. What was that? Was your case closed and he filed a Motion to Reopen?

Abandonment happens either by the Trustee filing a Notice or the closing of the case, whichever happens first (you can also seek an abandonment but that is a different issue). If your case was prevously closed and then reopened I am not sure if the reopening for the purpose of dealing with a tax refund sets aside the abandonment. If that is what happened, my gut says it does not.

Des.

We had the 341 meeting in Nov. 2011, filed in October then got the debtor discharge paper in Jan. 2012. Then we heard nothing from the attorney or courts until Oct. 2012 when the trustee filed with the court to collect the tax refund. IT doesnt make sense, why wouldnt she say something at the 341 (which she was not at) or say something when we filed, I dont get it.... I dont see why the attorney would tell us after the meeting that we were good , now we just wait for the papers. He did tell us recently that the trustee has the right to leave the case open fr 2yrs so maybe she was waiting for us to file taxes but she got previous copies of previous years so why not say something then. Frustrating.

[jst4f]

Sounds like the TT messed up but there is nothing you can do but arrange to pay the TT. If you don't have the money now, most TT will accept a payment plan. Your attorney's statements are their opinion based on their experience. Seems your attorney miss read the tea leaves. It happens. Get over it and move on to your fresh start by getting your BK closed.

This is another example why I wasn't ready to celebrate my BK until it was closed. Discharge is important but it aint over til it's over......closed.

As for the house I favor rent free living. Image be damned. Nothing like cash to help with that fresh start feeling.!!!!

[keepsmiling]

To be clear... you actually had a short sale happening?
What exactly does the tt stand to gain by interrupting this, since there is no equity, by definition, of a short sale?
The attorney I live with says a bank with cojones (you know, like AIG) could conceivably sue the tt for breach of fiduciary duty.

[StEt0417]

To be clear... you actually had a short sale happening?
What exactly does the tt stand to gain by interrupting this, since there is no equity, by definition, of a short sale?
The attorney I live with says a bank with cojones (you know, like AIG) could conceivably sue the tt for breach of fiduciary duty.

yes we tried to short sale it but it wasnt until 7 months after we recieved discharge of debt letter, then we had to stop it because we are still in bk so they couldnt move forward. However it wasnt until the bank asking for a certain document from our attorney that we all found out that the case was still open,

[tobee43]

yes we tried to short sale it but it wasnt until 7 months after we recieved discharge of debt letter, then we had to stop it because we are still in bk so they couldnt move forward. However it wasnt until the bank asking for a certain document from our attorney that we all found out that the case was still open,

i don't understand that at all. i'm sorry, your atty really should have checked the status of your situation after not rec'ing the close order within a "reasonable" time period.

so now what does your atty say is going to happen? actually if it's just the tax refund in the way of the close, i would see about working out payments?