Strict Trustee - need input

[catwhisperer]

Cat Whisperer here again.
First, thanks for all of your support. Still working through making decisions.
We are the ones who have been told "why file bankruptcy" by a bankruptcy attorney - just let them take your stuff. We have negligible income.
The one thing that has stuck in our minds during meetings with two attorneys is "that trustee is REAL STRICT and TOUGH!" Well, great! I think because our income has been so low that the lawyers think we are working under the table. Yes, when you look at the numbers people wonder how we can be surviving. But we have a roof over our heads and food on our table and a car that gets us around (with fingers crossed) and have been grateful for that.

I think that is my real fear - paying the $300 for the filing and having it dismissed because of something totally stupid. I'd rather file pro se - these lawyers don't seem to want to represent us. What is this world coming to when someone who REALLY needs to file and is really broke can't because of the fraudulent and abusive BK filers out there.
I think I am going to file pro se and if it is dismissed contact my senator or representatives because something is really wrong with the system if people who really need BK can't file because of Strict Trustees and excessive lawyer fees.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Its all about what you have at stake, what you have to lose. If you have nothing to lose like I did, or can afford to lose whatever you do have, filing pro-se is a great option. I was fortunate enough to have a very reasonable trustee. If your case and filing is solid and airtight, theres no reason your trustee should treat you any differently than someone who had hired an attorney.

[djk]

Its all about what you have at stake, what you have to lose. If you have nothing to lose like I did, or can afford to lose whatever you do have, filing pro-se is a great option. I was fortunate enough to have a very reasonable trustee. If your case and filing is solid and airtight, theres no reason your trustee should treat you any differently than someone who had hired an attorney.

another view is that if the petitioner is intelligent enough (perhaps more intelligent than 80% of local chap 7 bk lawyers) to do the research and
paperwork, simply do it. so, if you think you can read and write and can do whatever is necessary (if a typical chap 7 bk lawyer can, you can) to cover whatever bases need to be covered, even if there is something at risk,file Pro Se. My opinion is 90% of the trustees will actually respect you more if you can put your case in front of them by yourself in a proper way vs. using the majority of chap 7 bk lawyers. IMO, the majority of chap 7 bk lawyers are bottom feeders anyway. In any event, good luck to the original poster.

[no_it_all]

I would agree that an intelligent Pro se filer could navigate BK..Heck, there are a bunch of people that have done it here..BUT, I believe the OP has not only a Subchapter S to mess around with, but also most of the debt was incurred while trying to keep that business afloat. That will change the filing considerably. In fact, I don't even think the Means Test will apply if most of the debt is business debt..Anyway, it could get real messy real quick! Oh, and add a "tough trustee" to the mix and no wonder the attorneys are a little leary of this case, especially if there is a suggestion of fraud because of under-reported income... Not trying to discourage anyone, but please do know what you are getting into.

[anonymuse]

another view is that if the petitioner is intelligent enough (perhaps more intelligent than 80% of local chap 7 bk lawyers) to do the research and
paperwork, simply do it. so, if you think you can read and write and can do whatever is necessary (if a typical chap 7 bk lawyer can, you can) to cover whatever bases need to be covered, even if there is something at risk,file Pro Se. My opinion is 90% of the trustees will actually respect you more if you can put your case in front of them by yourself in a proper way vs. using the majority of chap 7 bk lawyers. IMO, the majority of chap 7 bk lawyers are bottom feeders anyway. In any event, good luck to the original poster.

Let me remind you that 81% of cases filed pro se under the new law have been dismissed, so I respectfully disagree with your comment about trustees respecting you more.

With the new laws, the attorney must sign on the dotted line essentially validating your information to be truthful and they have more penalties if things go wrong or they wrongly file for Ch 7 when it should be Ch 13. The new laws put some of the work off of the trustee to the attorney.

There's too much that can go wrong if you have assets you need to protect.

[no_it_all]

With the new laws, the attorney must sign on the dotted line essentially validating your information to be truthful and they have more penalties if things go wrong or they wrongly file for Ch 7 when it should be Ch 13.

Perhaps that is why the OP is having a hard time retaining an attorney?

[djk]

There's too much that can go wrong if you have assets you need to protect.

your post reminded me yet again i need to stay away from idle stats. they are a bottomless hole. you make your own future. you can do it, if you just try. best wishes.

[aa06a47]

Let me remind you that 81% of cases filed pro se under the new law have been dismissed, so I respectfully disagree with your comment about trustees respecting you more.

With the new laws, the attorney must sign on the dotted line essentially validating your information to be truthful and they have more penalties if things go wrong or they wrongly file for Ch 7 when it should be Ch 13. The new laws put some of the work off of the trustee to the attorney.

There's too much that can go wrong if you have assets you need to protect.

anonymuse, where did the 81% figure come from? I have heard the same thing, but have not been able to find anything on the internet to read about this.

[alh]

Let me remind you that 81% of cases filed pro se under the new law have been dismissed, so I respectfully disagree with your comment about trustees respecting you more.

I wonder if it is 81% of the pro se cases have been dismissed or that of the cases that have been dismissed, 81% were pro se. Subtle difference, but makes a mojor difference.

[anonymuse]

I wonder if it is 81% of the pro se cases have been dismissed or that of the cases that have been dismissed, 81% were pro se. Subtle difference, but makes a mojor difference.

http://www.cob.uscourts.gov/faqs.asp

Please be aware that through January 20, 2006, 81% of the cases dismissed under the new provisions of the Bankruptcy Code were filed by debtors who did not have an attorney.

[Minnymouth]

YEP FOLKS - IT'S IN WRITING AND IN THE COURT RECORDS....

Not only this state, but many others also..............

When you file pro se - the Court Clerk tells your NOTHING - you ask questions, you will get NO ANSWERS - because you are representing yourself and are expected to know what to do, when to do it, and how its supposed to be done correctly.

You are on your own when you file pro se - legally, financially (all expenses involved) and if you do not know what your doing - YOUR CASE WILL BE DISMISSED......... The Trustee will not give you a written statement saying why your case is dismissed - he will just say "improper paperwork"!!!! (and you figure it out)................

So pro se filer - BEWARE - know what your doing................

Especially if you have a home you don't want to loose, or have a business venture that is also part of your personal debts...........

[catwhisperer]

YEP FOLKS - IT'S IN WRITING AND IN THE COURT RECORDS....

Not only this state, but many others also..............

When you file pro se - the Court Clerk tells your NOTHING - you ask questions, you will get NO ANSWERS - because you are representing yourself and are expected to know what to do, when to do it, and how its supposed to be done correctly.

You are on your own when you file pro se - legally, financially (all expenses involved) and if you do not know what your doing - YOUR CASE WILL BE DISMISSED......... The Trustee will not give you a written statement saying why your case is dismissed - he will just say "improper paperwork"!!!! (and you figure it out)................

So pro se filer - BEWARE - know what your doing................

Especially if you have a home you don't want to loose, or have a business venture that is also part of your personal debts...........

OK, I'll heed the warnings but here is a good question - what if you use a bankruptcy petition preparer and what if the business or your assets aren't worth squat?

[anonymuse]

OK, I'll heed the warnings but here is a good question - what if you use a bankruptcy petition preparer and what if the business or your assets aren't worth squat?

FYI, bankruptcy petition preparers cannot give legal advice.

[gacreditguy]

best advice is to use an attorney that knows what he/she is doing. I have seen case after case of pacer dismissed because someone did not file the pre-discharge education certificate. Something that minor causes everything to go "boom"..

not saying a pro-se'r cannot do a great job but unless you are 200% positive of everything required, spend the moolah and go to a good attorney.

[catwhisperer]

best advice is to use an attorney that knows what he/she is doing. I have seen case after case of pacer dismissed because someone did not file the pre-discharge education certificate. Something that minor causes everything to go "boom"..

not saying a pro-se'r cannot do a great job but unless you are 200% positive of everything required, spend the moolah and go to a good attorney.

The catch 22 is that the three lawyers we have seen would have hurt more than helped us and we can't afford an expensive one. If we had the money to pay an attorney, we'd probably just negotiate with the bank. But like most legal systems, the ones who really need a good lawyer cannot afford one and those with the most money often get off.
ARGH!!