Income Tax and Chapter 7

[debralouise]

I am filing Pro Se Chapter 7 soon.
I received a notice of deficiency on my 2008 Federal and State Taxes more than 280 days ago.
I do not have any liens and I don’t have any real assets.
Do I need to do anything else to have them discharged other than list them with my other unsecured debts?
Thank you for any help.
Debra

[AngelinaCat]

Hi debralouise, welcome to the forum.

I moved your question into a thread of it's own so that it will be better seen by the membership.

Regretfully, I don't have any words of wisdom for you about your taxes. We tried to have our 2004 Federal Income Tax forgiven when we filed our Ch7 in December 2007, but not enough time had elapsed since we filed that return, and filed for BK.

[debralouise]

Thank you!

Hi debralouise, welcome to the forum.

I moved your question into a thread of it's own so that it will be better seen by the membership.

Regretfully, I don't have any words of wisdom for you about your taxes. We tried to have our 2004 Federal Income Tax forgiven when we filed out Ch7 in December 2007, but not enough time had elapsed since we filed that return, and filed for BK.

[HHM]

How much tax debt are we talking about?

Generally, if someone has tax debt, they probably shouldn't file pro se, or at a minimum at least pay for an attorney to review the tax debt and provide an opinion on dischargeability. e.g. http://bankruptcytaxdischarge.com/

[debralouise]

The lawyer I spoke to said they were Dischargeable.
My question is do i just put the debt with my other unsecured debts or do I need to put it somewhere else?
And is there any other form I need to fill out?

Thanks for any help.
Debra

[justbroke]

They are probably dischargeable and you "could" take the chance that the IRS just marks them as discharged once your case ends. However, it is entirely possible that the IRS filed a tax lien already, but maybe not.

As for where to put it on the schedules, that is entirely a legal question of strategy. Just putting it on Schedule F (Unsecured-Non Priority) doesn't mean that they are dischargeable just because they are there. The taxes must meet all 3 conditions, and the real threat could be the any tax lien.

What HHM is talking about is "hiring" (paying) an attorney to review the taxes and their status so that you know for sure that they are dischargeable.

[debralouise]

Thanks for the reply. I don't have the money for an attorney, so I used my 30min free legal help that my work provides.
I don't have a home, or car or any other real property. My only concern after reading the Nolo book was the tax question.
I was hoping that someone could help that has already filed and had a similar problem/question.
Thanks again, Debra

[HHM]

Unless you provided that attorney with copies of your IRS transcripts (and assuming that attorney even knows how to read them...most don't), the advice is about as useful as an Ice-maker in the arctic.

You need to ask yourself, what is more important to you...doing your BK on the ultra cheap and "hoping" it all works out in the end.

Or spending a few hundred dollars to get a "real" answer to your tax question.

As JB points out, no one here can "really" answer your questions. Sure, it "sounds" like the taxes are dischargeable, but unless you get a hold of the IRS account transcripts for the years in question, no one can say for sure.

[debralouise]

Wow. I came to this site for support, but I'm not feeling that. Just a little too harsh for me right now. I need thicker skin for this crowd.

[HHM]

Reality bites.

But seriously, what do you want? Face reality for a second, NO ONE can determine tax dischargeability without the necessary facts. The only way to determine tax dischargeability, and the surrounding issues, is to review IRS account transcripts. And as far as I know, there are no attorneys that do that for free, AND know what they are doing.

[nceguyfromne]

Wow. I came to this site for support, but I'm not feeling that. Just a little too harsh for me right now. I need thicker skin for this crowd.

I do understand where you're coming from, Debra. It does take somewhat of a thick skin to hear the feedback you'll receive here, but I think the vast majority of it comes with the best of intentions. No one wants to give you false hope only to have it blow up in your face, especially when the IRS is involved. Every Chapter 7/13 case is unique in some way, but I'm sure there must be someone here who has had a similar experience and will hopefully be kind enough to share it with you, even if it does not constitute "legal advice", so you can make the most informed decisions possible. Filing pro se is your choice and it should be respected.

[Pjmax]

debralouise, I understand how you feel, but when it comes to taxes, even with a lawyer, you may be crossing your fingers until the end. I owe fed taxes for two years that I know are not dischargeable, it's not a large amount and not worth waiting another year or three to discharge them (for me anyway.) but I do have one state tax lien that should be dischargeable. I am about ten days from discharge, and I'm still not sure if it will go away or not . . . and I do have a lawyer.

The answers you get on here may not always be what you want to hear, but the 'support' is invaluable.

[debralouise]

Thanks for your positive commets!