Married but Filing Separate- Exemptions Questions

[Sculp1n]

First off, as my first post on here, Thank God there is a forum where we can ask questions. I was getting pretty frustrated with the lack of help!

So I'm rockin' and rolling on my bankruptcy forms but I'm a little stumped on exemptions. As the thread titles suggets I'm married but filing separately. The question I have is with things that both my wife and I purchase and use (for example our $300 couch). Do I claim the total amount it's worth, half because my wife uses it too, or what? I'd just assume to air on the side of caution and claim it all but my state (utah) only gives $500 for household exemptions and I'm running out of breathing room after adding dish-ware, appliances, rugs, etc...

Thanks in advance!

[shoopy]

First off, as my first post on here, Thank God there is a forum where we can ask questions. I was getting pretty frustrated with the lack of help!

So I'm rockin' and rolling on my bankruptcy forms but I'm a little stumped on exemptions. As the thread titles suggets I'm married but filing separately. The question I have is with things that both my wife and I purchase and use (for example our $300 couch). Do I claim the total amount it's worth, half because my wife uses it too, or what? I'd just assume to air on the side of caution and claim it all but my state (utah) only gives $500 for household exemptions and I'm running out of breathing room after adding dish-ware, appliances, rugs, etc...

Thanks in advance!

Well, the first thing to remember is, your $300 couch is no longer a $300 couch. It's worth whatever you could sell it for in a yard sale. Unless your dishes are some elegant china, I would doubt that they would worth more than 10 cents per piece for BK valuation purposes. Don't think new replacement cost, think Goodwill, or yard sale cost.

I added up my misc. household stuff and and came up with considerably under $1,000 in actual value.

Good luck.

[LadyInTheRed]

It depends on the laws of your state. If, under state law, half the couch is yours and half is your wife's, you only need to list and exempt half the value of the couch.

Are you filing pro-se? If so, do you have a copy of the Nolo Press book on Chapter 7? Have you taken advantage of free consultations with attorneys to ask questions like this?

[Sculp1n]

I'm in a common law state so I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that would mean that half of my joint property is my wife's. So biased on what you said LadyInTheRed that means I only should claim half of the replacement value of my goods we both purchased.

Thats good, that will help tame the cost of exemptions a bit!

As for your questions, yes I'm filing pro-se. I've talked to a lawyer but I didn't ask any specific questions. At the time I was still trying to decide if I should even go the whole lawyer route. I've got another consultation with a different lawyer in the next few days and I'll be asking more specific questions this time. I downloaded the Nolo Chapter 7 on my kindle and read about half of it but it didn't cover my specific question (or at least it did but I didn't understand it). At the moment I'm cranking away with my papers and just finished my schedules and I'm hoping to have it done by the end of the week. I'll keep you guys posted how it goes.

Thanks for the help and let me know if there is anything else you think I should do. My case should be pretty cut and dry. I have 30,000 in debt (all unsecured) and between my wife and I we only bring in $3,000 a month with about $2900 in monthly expenses. We rent a house, own 1 car valued at $2000 and no fancy stuff.

[AngelinaCat]

Make sure that when you are giving values for your things, that you use rock-bottom yard sale prices. If you had to suddenly move in two days and couldn't take anything with you, what would be the least amount of money you would take for an item? If you had to move that $300.00 couch, you *might* be lucky to get someone to pay you $25.00 for it. And the bulkier it is, the hard it is to move it at a yard sale, simply because the weight and bulk is more than many yard salers wish to deal with. It might be helpful to go around to some yard sales and see what similar items sell for.

Good wishes to you and welcome to the forum.

[Sculp1n]

I'm about ready to file but I wanted to ask a couple more questions.

First is another exemption questions, I have a few hobbies (shooting and Fishing) and I was wondering if a trustee would likely get ticked off if I listed my guns and fishing gear under my states "Heirlooms/Sentimental" Category (the gear and guns aren't worth more than $200)?

Second question, on Schedule B (Personal Property) I've got a small office in my house that I work from home sometimes in as a graphic designer/photographer. My questions is, should I list my office furniture, computer, and camera under "office supplies" on Schedule B or under "Household Goods and Furnishings". My worry is that since I don't actually own a business (I work for a small company as their graphic artist/photographer) I shouldn't list it under office supplies but I do use it for work. What do you think?

Thanks in advance!

[Pjmax]

Are you using Federal exemptions? There is a Tools of the Trade exemption I believe.

My assets were so low, I didn't need to use this, my design equipment, computer/printers etc., just went under household.

[Sculp1n]

No Federal exemptions, my state uses their own ($500 for household and I'm pretty close to maxed on that). For my office gear I'm placing them under "Tools of the Trade" since I use them for work.

[Pjmax]

You do have a choice in Texas of Fed or State exemptions. I can't say which is better for you, just pointing out that you do have a choice.

[Sculp1n]

Ya I'm not in a state that allows to choose state or Fed.

I have another question for you guys. If I don't have any debts secured by property in my B8 Form (Statement of Intentions), do I still need to file it?

And, not to repeat myself but
- Do you think a trustee would likely get ticked off if I listed my guns and fishing gear as "Heirlooms/Sentimental" Exemption (the gear and guns aren't worth more than $200)?
And
- On Schedule B (Personal Property) I've got a small office in my house that I work from home sometimes in as a graphic designer/photographer. My questions is, should I list my office furniture, computer, and camera under "office supplies" on Schedule B or under "Household Goods and Furnishings"? My worry is that since I don't actually own a business (I work for a small company as their graphic artist/photographer) I shouldn't list it under office supplies but I do use it for work.

[Pjmax]

Sculp1n, I'm so sorry, have no idea why I thought you were in Texas. I'll just shut up for now.

[AngelinaCat]

I have another question for you guys. If I don't have any debts secured by property in my B8 Form (Statement of Intentions), do I still need to file it?

You need to file it with the notation: "Not Applicable", or some similar wording. If you don't, the clerk at the BK Court--and the trustee--may think that this page was left out by accident, or worse, that you were trying to conceal something. This is an example of where you see blank pages in documents that say: "This page is intentionally left blank."

For your guns and fishing gear, I would put that under "Personal Items", unless you have maxed out that category. You might be able to put it under 'Heirlooms/Sentimental" if they actually were heirlooms. Just keep the value low. You have *old* guns and fishing gear, not *vintage* or *heirloom*. Is there a "Miscellaneous" or "Hobbies" category?

For the office equipment, if you have a "Tools of the Trade" exemption, by all means put it there. But if you don't, I don't think that there would be a problem with it under "Office Supplies". You are not claiming a business anywhere else in your paperwork

[Sculp1n]

Is there a "Miscellaneous" or "Hobbies" category?

Thanks AngelinaCat!

No Miscellaneous or Hobby exemptions. Utah seems to be a state that focuses more on protecting the creditors then it does the debtors. However if I had 12 months worth of food storage I could claim that as exempt . I think I'll just keep the guns and fishing gear off exemptions to be on the safe side and if the trustee wants to liquidate it I'll just have to suck it up.

[LadyInTheRed]

I think I'll just keep the guns and fishing gear off exemptions to be on the safe side and if the trustee wants to liquidate it I'll just have to suck it up.

If you can make any reasonable arguement that they are collectibles/heirlooms, I'd try to exempt them. The trustee may ask you about them, not be convinced they qualify for the exemption and either drop the issue or object to your exemption. Or, the issue may never come up.

I suggest you consult with another attorney before you file your petition. You don't have to tell them you are planning to file pro se and can ask questions like this to find out what they would do.

[AngelinaCat]

I suggest you consult with another attorney before you file your petition. You don't have to tell them you are planning to file pro se and can ask questions like this to find out what they would do.

LITR has an excellent suggestion here. After all, the attorneys know the trustees in your area. They won't know which particular one will be assigned to you, but they will know generally how these types of things are handled.