Springleaf demanding reaffirmation or surrender of household goods

[crcarter99]

Hi,

Springleaf is being a bit pushy and wants me to reaffirm my loan with them. The current balance is 2400.00 They are asking for 600.00 repayment at 0% interest. This loan is secured with household goods some of which I no longer own.. I do have similar items. Some of the collateral died and was replaced and some was sold.

The personal property form lists the items in the following manner:

ITEM	SIZE/MODEL	REPLACEMENT VALUE
Television(Secondary)	Sony 32in LCD 1/3	700
Musical Instruments	Ibanez Electrical Guitar	750
Home Video Game and Tapes	SONY PS2 System and Games	250
Television(Secondary)	32in SONY TV 2/3	200
Television(Secondary)	SONY 42in LCD TV 3/3	800
Tivo	HD DVR	100
Computer Equipment	Homemade PCx2	600

Of those items I still have the Ibanez Guitar, the computers, the tivo and the 32 inch SONY TV 2/3. Some of the items died. Some were sold. I replaced some with similar items - (Replaced ps2 with ps3, replaced 42lcd with a 40inch)

My 341 was early September and I'm looking at early November discharge. They want me to sign now and make a first payment in October.

My questions:
1) What happens if I don't reaffirm and don't have all of the items listed for surrender?
2) If I agree to reaffirm am I obligated to sign now or can it wait until closer to discharge in November (This would make the first new payment due November instead of October)?
3) Can not signing delay discharge?
4) Are the "similar" items in jeopardy because they are the same "class' of item or is it explicitly the size/model listed?

[frogger]

I'm really not too concerned with this, however a couple of questions for you:

Were the items specifically listed as to secure the note?

Was the note (lien) perfected?

Are the items actually worth $600.00 to you, or are you willing to have them picked up (just in case they get a wild hair)

Pretty much, the stuff is worthless.

[keepmine]

For sure, let yout lawyer know about the letter.
I'd be inclined to ignore them. Nobody wants used electronics.
You can't produce what you don't have. The expense of trying to file a writ of replevin just isn't worth the time and expense. They'd be the ones having to prove exactly what they wanted to recover. Ignore it and they'll go away. It has no affect on your discharge.

[crcarter99]

Just to fill in some holes - the agreement was actually sent to me by the legal assistant of my lawyer. I think they expect me to sign it... I'm thinking that may not be in my best interest

The items were specifically listed to secure the loan. Although, the loan was renewed several times and things just kind of rolled over to the new contract.

I have no idea if the lien was actually perfected. Is there anywhere I can look this info up?

As far as them picking up the items that I still have if they decided to i'd give them up as long as the similar items are not in jeopardy.

Thanks for the help. This forum has been invaluable through this process..

[frogger]

Personally, I wouldn't sign it. The odds that they will come pick it up are low.

And, they can probably get paid more from their insurance company than from you..... (of course, they won't tell you that)

[AngelinaCat]

Springleaf is the newest incarnation of American General Finance. They are very difficult to work with. I would tell them to go pound sand, and do NOT sign a reaffirmation document.

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

EDIT to add a copy of a post I made in July:

We had a loan with American General for 5K. The collateral were two older cars we owned. Although they were adequately insured with our company, AG force placed another policy on top of ours. This included extra fees and interest tucked into our loan. And we never really found out which car they were concerned with--it was not for both.

Car #1 backfired and caught fire. When 'Hub reported that to AG so they could file a claim on their insurance, he was told: "Oh no, that policy isn't on that car, and YOU have to take care of this. 'Hub ignored them. Several months later the second car broke down and was going to take $1500 to repair--and the car could not be guaranteed. We didn't have that kind of money, so 'Hub let the mechanic have the car in exchange for the troubleshooting and work he had already done.

AG squawked and sputtered, but by this time we didn't care. They had not worked with us at all with these cars, and when we needed to modify our payment arrangements. We knew by this time that we were going to file, and were very pleased that AG would be discharged.

AG tried to force us into a reaffirmation agreement by sending the papers to our trustee. He gave them to us at our 341, and said we needed to discuss this with our attorney. And that settled that.

[goon]

Just to fill in some holes - the agreement was actually sent to me by the legal assistant of my lawyer. I think they expect me to sign it... I'm thinking that may not be in my best interest

I would talk to the attorney. What leads you to believe that they expect you to sign it? I know my attorney's office will automatically send me a copy of anything sent to them in regards to my case, this is done by someone before the lawyer even looks at it, doesn't mean that they want me to do anything with it just keeping me in the loop.

That being said I agree with everyone else, I would NOT reaffirm.

[Postbankrupt]

Never heard of Springleaf giving secured loans. They are usually a very good company to work with.

[AngelinaCat]

Springleaf bought American General Finance. See my post above.

[helpmeout]

I wouldn't reaffirm. Tell them that they are welcome to come and get the items. Just send you several dates and you will pick the one that is convenient for you. Chances are they will drop the issue.

[crcarter99]

Just to update -

I sent an email to my attorney stating I do not wish to reaffirm this debt and would be willing to surrender the items. I immediately received a phone call from his legal assistant asking me if I was sure and if I understood I had to surrender all items listed. I stated I was willing to surrender all the items I still had and asked her to tell them they are welcome to come pick them up. She said she wasn't sure this was an option that I would probably have to take the items to them. I followed up with an email restating my intent to surrender the remaining items and do not want the burden of springleaf following me out of this bankruptcy. So this basically leads to some further questions -

1) Does springleaf have any legal recourse regarding the listed collateral that I no longer have? (ps2 , 2 tvs (lost both to lightning))

2) Am I obligated to take the remaining items to them?

3) Can they take something that is not explicitly identified above? The contract says "home video games and tapes" and under detail identifies a SONY PS2. I no longer have the playstation 2 but have a playstation 3. Can they say "Oh the ps3 is home video game and tapes?"

[frogger]

[QUOTE=crcarter99;583604]She said she wasn't sure this was an option that I would probably have to take the items to them. QUOTE]

Now that's funny. If they are haydes bent on getting their items, I would give them a date and time that they would be sitting in my yard available for pickup. And... if they don't get them that day, the trash man will the next.

Your attorney's assistant needs to grow a pair.

[tobee43]

She said she wasn't sure this was an option that I would probably have to take the items to them. QUOTE]

Now that's funny. If they are haydes bent on getting their items, I would give them a date and time that they would be sitting in my yard available for pickup. And... if they don't get them that day, the trash man will the next.

Your attorney's assistant needs to grow a pair.

absolutely....the asst. not only needs to grow a pair he/she needs to know how to protect their client. not an option my butt...i would call your atty's office back and tell them it's the ONLY option if they want the items back or they can wait for a court order and come get them ....themselves. unreal these people...both them and the asst. (sorry!)

[justbroke]

Sorry for jumping on this so late. If Springleaf (formerly American General Finance) has a non-possessory consensual lien on your household items, then you could have the lien avoided under 11 USC 522(f).

I would ask my attorney about avoiding the lien under 522(f). I would speak to the attorney her/himself and not the assistant regarding the lien avoidance. Perhaps the cost of the Motion to Avoid Lien (Under 11 USC 522(f)) is not worth the trouble. I know that most attorneys love avoiding Beneficial, American General, Springleaf liens! I did a similar thing in my Chapter 13 against American General.

3) Can they take something that is not explicitly identified above? The contract says "home video games and tapes" and under detail identifies a SONY PS2. I no longer have the playstation 2 but have a playstation 3. Can they say "Oh the ps3 is home video game and tapes?"

This is the exact problem with these loans. They usually list "generic" terms so will say "computers" instead of a specific one. How this works ENTIRELY depends on the UCC, as implemented in your State. In Florida, they are not allowed to use generic terms for some things. The problem with generics is exactly what you are afraid of... you pledged "video games". They would say that includes the Playstation 3!

[keepsmiling]

This is the exact problem with these loans. They usually list "generic" terms so will say "computers" instead of a specific one. How this works ENTIRELY depends on the UCC, as implemented in your State. In Florida, they are not allowed to use generic terms for some things. The problem with generics is exactly what you are afraid of... you pledged "video games". They would say that includes the Playstation 3!

OMG. That just can't be right. HOW CAN THAT BE RIGHT????
OP, I will tell you this. LOTS of folks have come here with similar q's. I can recall virtually NONE in which the bark of these guys wasn't worse than the bite.... ie, rarely has much come of their threats once you call them on it.
So... don't worry too much.
And maybe the ps3 could take a vacay, just in case.
What insanity.