In a Panic Question........

[pamkev]

got a email form our lawyer saying the the TT is looking to dismiss our Chapter 7 due to cause or abuse. We were over median by a thousand. I am providing all documents asked for.

Two question I am very concerned about and the one just happen and took us totally off guard. My daughter decided to sit out a semester of college so she could work and save money so she won't have huge loans since we said no more co signing didn't find this out till 1 week before college was to start. She just got her job like this week and it's only part time. She has not worked for the last couple of years. TT is asking for college name and degree she is going for. Will tell lawyer this when I talked to her Friday if he denies her as a dependent we will be way over the median income for a family of 2.

The second which we told our lawyer and disclosed as income was we have two sons that came home within the past six months due to job loss they are working but not full time. One has had medical issues and just went back to work. The TT is asking how long they will be there which we are hoping they are gone by the first of the year.

So what happens if its dismissed for cause or abuse are we aout of luck or looking at a Chapter 13

Pam in full Panic mode

[basketsbears]

Hi,

First off (((hugs))). I know how stressful this has been for you.

I don't have any advice. My attorney told us from the get-go and again at the 341, that because our income was over the median when we filed, there would be a presumption of abuse filed. She then said it would be withdrawn. She had contacted the UST's office the day before the 341 (not the TT) to see if they needed additional information before the 341, and they said "no" and were going to let it go through as a 7. She told us at the 341 to expect the presumption of abuse form when we got it in the mail and then sometime after we would get a notice that they were withdrawing it. We have not gotten the notice that it has been withdrawn(pres. of abuse was filed 8/21), but we haven't heard anything else either.

Anyway with all of that I said above, maybe something like that is going on with your case too? Try and relax, I know it is hard.

Please keep us posted.

Lynn

[pamkev]

Thanks Lynn I'm going to try to go to bed and try to sleep now. I have already emailed her all the items they wanted although there is a few things I have to talk to her about.

They also wanted all copies of paycheck since we filed thank God hubby worked no OT and no signs of it to come.

[frogger]

So what happens if its dismissed for cause or abuse are we aout of luck or looking at a Chapter 13

Pam in full Panic mode

"What if".

Those two words create more stress and confusion in bankruptcy than no others. Slow down and understand that nothing happens overnight. The trustee has asked, and you will provide.

Listen to you lawyer, provide honest and truthful answers, and it will all work out.

[HHM]

If you were over median, then the Presumption of Abuse automatically arises and the US Trustee will ALWAYS file the motion. Don't worry. This situation is normal. The US Trustee must file its Presumption of Abuse motion within a very short time frame after the 341 meeting. As such, they will generally "just file it" to give them time to review the case.

As with Frogger...no point on dwelling on the "what if".

But to put the what if as simply has possible, if for some reason the trustee would win the fight, you have a choice. Either (1) let the chapter 7 dismiss (not a good idea), or (2) convert to chapter 13 (99% of time, option 2 is best).

[pamkev]

Oh frogger I need to come sit in your pond. I did sent all the documentation he asked for.
The one question I'm not to sure how to answer is on what bases are we charging our adult sons and how long will they be with us.
This was gonna be my answer please let me know if this sounds okay.

We are charging our sons 150.00 each per month just enough to cover basic living expensive so they can save to get on there feet to move out on there own. We are anticipating that they will be gone by the first of the year. Does that sound okay or do I need to add more

[pamkev]

If you were over median, then the Presumption of Abuse automatically arises and the US Trustee will ALWAYS file the motion. Don't worry. This situation is normal. The US Trustee must file its Presumption of Abuse motion within a very short time frame after the 341 meeting. As such, they will generally "just file it" to give them time to review the case.

As with Frogger...no point on dwelling on the "what if".

But to put the what if as simply has possible, if for some reason the trustee would win the fight, you have a choice. Either (1) let the chapter 7 dismiss (not a good idea), or (2) convert to chapter 13 (99% of time, option 2 is best).

Thank you

[pamkev]

Update
Talked to our lawyer and she told me we had three triggers. One was the heating bill which she is not worried about as we have 4 years of bills to show how we used just about the same amount fuel but the cost have gone up. The second was the student loans which we took out or co-signed for daughter which this tt has a bug up his crawl (her words) here of lately. The last was we were over income for our family size but not much.
She said out of the 707 case's she has had 20 to 25 in her years of practice only 1 was dismissed.
She said she was not to concerned with any issues but still caution us that anything could happen. Trying to breath till next Friday at this time as that is when our 341 meeting is.

Pam

[frogger]

She said out of the 707 case's she has had 20 to 25 in her years of practice only 1 was dismissed.


Pam

You can't get much better odds than that.

[pamkev]

I worded it way wrong. She has had 20- 25 cases that were under review to be dismissed due to cause pursuant to 11 U.S.C. 707 out of those she only had 1 dismissed.

HHM
I reread your post we have NOT had our 341 meeting yet it Friday the 14th at 11 am.

Trying real hard to be calm and tell myself it is what it is and I can't change it.

[LadyInTheRed]

You say you hope your sons will leave at the beginning of the year. Do you know they will be back on their feet by then? Are you going to kick them out whether they are or not. Unless you know you will kick them out, how do you know how long they will be there? Could it be that the only accurate answer to that question is "I don't know. It could be 5 months or 5 years." Just a thought. Run it by your attorney.

[AngelinaCat]

Pam--first of all {{{{HUGGSS}}} Next, calm down a little bit.

Make sure you talk ALL of this over with your attorney. If you feel like you are not getting through to him/her, or are not getting proper answers, go and camp in the attorney's office until you do. 'Hub and I had to do that, and I have advised others before you to do that also.

[pamkev]

You say you hope your sons will leave at the beginning of the year. Do you know they will be back on their feet by then? Are you going to kick them out whether they are or not. Unless you know you will kick them out, how do you know how long they will be there? Could it be that the only accurate answer to that question is "I don't know. It could be 5 months or 5 years." Just a thought. Run it by your attorney.

Thanks LIR I think your answer is better as you are right we will not kick them out and who knows could be 5 months or 5 years. Will run that by lawyer on Monday

[pamkev]

Pam--first of all {{{{HUGGSS}}} Next, calm down a little bit.

Make sure you talk ALL of this over with your attorney. If you feel like you are not getting through to him/her, or are not getting proper answers, go and camp in the attorney's office until you do. 'Hub and I had to do that, and I have advised others before you to do that also.

I have talked this all over with our lawyers she was on the phone with me for almost a hour going over every detail the TT wanted. She is working on the reply this weekend and will email me for our approval and if okay will hand deliver it to TT Monday.
I am going to update our reply about our sons living with us per LIR post above as we will not kick them out. The one is started to having medical issue as he now has had his knee drain twice due to infection and having to be on his feet 12 hours a day doesn't help