I decided not to file--here is the latest...

[Selador]

Hi folks.

Well, I decided not to file BK.

But I stopped paying on all cards except the two I wanted to keep.

So far, mostly what I have had to deal with is phone calls. But one card has decided to take legal action. Home Depot. (That one WAS a little over two thousand. Now it is almost double because of their 'legal fees'.)

It is down to the last few days now, before I have to appear in court.

I think all the other cards simply did their homework and realized that I have nothing of value, nor do I have an income that can be garnished. But HD's lawyers apparently just grind crap out and hope it hits somewhere close to the truth.

Their current basic claim is that I am married, so they can take action against my spouse. And that I am employed. (At one point they claimed I am working TWO jobs.)

I am not married. Haven't been for more than 20 years. I do not live with anyone, etc. And I haven't worked for more than ten years, I am retired and on social security retirement only.

Most of what I have gotten from the HD lawyers over time, has looked legal. And threatening. But has pretty much all turned out to be fishing expiditions trying to get me to do their work for them.

They did finally get it pushed into court. But as I said, they have done so on the pretense that I am married, have a job, and am hiding assets.

They sent me paperwork with the court summons that they said I could fill out and be able to skip the court date.

I have opted to go to court.

1.) They will get the information, the moment it is presented in court, not a moment sooner.
2.) When the court sees the information, they will see how HD has wasted the court's time.

I am hoping this will result in HD's lawyers learning a lesson. But I am not counting on it.


Anyway... Like I said I do have a court date. Thursday the 21st.

I'd like to run my 'assets' past youns here and get some feedback, opinions on what you think will happen.

I live in Washington state. I own property. I live on the property. Well, properly stated, I own three lots. With one lot separated from the other two. I live on the two lots. I bought the third because it is the only access I have to the first two. That's my property.

The two lots together are valued at 13 thousand, and four thousand. The separate lot is valued at 4000. That is by the county for tax purposes. If you tried to sell lots out here for that price you'd be laughed at. If I tried to sell any of them myself, I would be lucky to get 500 apiece for the two, and maybe 1000 for the one that is supposed to be worth 13 thousand. That is real market value. Not just what the county claims it is worth, for tax purposes.

Plus, I inherited a massive amount of trash, rubble and garbage on these lots, when I bought them. I have health issues that have me only slowly able to clean up. Very slowly. I have priced having someone else clean up, and it would cost ~7,000.00 to clean up the separate lot, and twice that for the two lots that are together.

Now... I don't think that the county, or HD, or anyone else would be able to get enough at auction, to even pay for the auction expenses. But I have no idea whether they are idiots enough to go ahead and try anyway. Nor do I know if they have any real ability to take the property in the first place.

Opinions ? Facts ?

~~~~~~~

Next up, vehicles. I have three trucks. Only one of them runs. One is completely missing the nose. LOL None of them are worth more than scrap value. Think they'll decide to take one or more of those ?

I live in an RV. I don't think they can take that, because I do live in it.

That's pretty much it. I don't have anything collectible. No annuities. No investments. No rich uncles. Etc. Just a hermit living in a cave shaped like an RV on my own property.. LOL

Any honest opinions on how this is going to go down ?

[rta]

Hi Selador,

We're in a somewhat similar situation, and it's really quite difficult. Anyway, since you already have been sued in court, you would have to file an answer (and you could probably get a fee waiver due to low income). However, to get the skinny on what's involved, I think you need to research other online groups that deal with debtor defense in collection cases. The ones I've looked into are creditinfocenter.com and debtorboard.com, both of which have helpful and knowledgeable people who have fought creditors in court and lived to tell the tale.

I'm not sure what papers HD sent you, so it's hard to tell what will happen next. If they sent a summons and complaint, how long do you have to file an answer? If you don't file an answer, they could get an easy default judgment. They do that all the time to defendants, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Should they get a judgment, they can keep trying to levy your bank account, garnish (nonexistent) wages, or put a lien on property.

It's still possible to file BK after a judgment. That's called the nuclear option. But it would be good for you to research your questions at the websites I've mentioned, if you prefer to deal with the court. Either way, you're striking a blow against the debt collection industry and its unlawful practices.

All the best to you.

[Selador]

Hi rta,

Thank you for the quick response.

I am not going to 'fight' this.

My thinking is that I do owe the debt. If HD IS able to actually take something, and it is worth it to them, then more power to them.

I'd just like to know what are the realistic chances that they can or will take any of the above ? Because that is ALL the assets I have.

The shiny side to this cloud is that after this is finished... IF they are able to take anything, and do, there will be nothing left for anyone else to take. LOL

They already went though the summons and complaint, and got the summary judgement.

What they are doing now is that attempt to levy, garnish, etc.

[shoopy]

My opinion is that if they were big enough dicks to go this far, they likely will go the extra mile and try to relieve you of your property, regardless of what it's worth.

In my opinion, if you're feeling at all feisty, you should try to file chapter 7 pro se, as quick as you can, you have nothing to lose, and maybe you can keep the few things that you have. Is there any legal aid help for low income folks in your area that might be able to help you fill out the paper work, if you get stuck?

[rta]

If they have already gotten a judgment, you still have judgment exemptions according to the laws in your state. They're similar to BK exemptions, so HD might not be able to even touch the properties, but you need to look that up in your state. They can't touch Social Security, cuz if they do try, you could get an attorney to sue them for FDCPA violations. Such attorneys can collect attorneys' fees from the creditor being sued, and collect some money for you.

I can't imagine that they can deprive you of your property by putting a lien on it, but why should they get anything that should not be theirs? Maybe someone more knowledgeable about judgment exemptions can chime in.

I'm really sorry to hear they got a judgment. I hope you can fight this to your advantage. Best of luck to you.

[Selador]

I'm not 'feeling all feisty'. LOL I could have filed chapter 7 a long time ago. And can do so, completely free.

I do not want to file bankruptcy.

IMO, they haven't done this to be 'dicks'. They have done it because they are the absolute laziest lawyers you can imagine.

Like I said, none of the others have done anything like this. I think that is because ANY of them have the resources to actually look up my circumstances and see for themselves that I have no resources they can take.

The HD lawyers could do so as well. Instead, right along, they have tried to get me to do all their work for them, and TELL them what resources I have.

I have chosen to deal with this the way I am, so that the courts can see for themselves how lazy, inept and wasteful the lawyers for HD, are...

~~~~~~~

Lookit, this is my view of it. I could be wrong, but it is the way I see it.

I used the cards. I owe the debts. I have a conscience and want to pay what I owe, but I don't think those debts should be usurious, and in all but two cases, it HAS been.

As I said before, i think I have pretty much paid back everything I have ever borrowed, and then enough on top of that, for a good profit for the lender. (Yet my 'debt' was still close to the same.) The problem is, they are not happy with a good profit. They want to keep me on the hook, and paying multiple times over on the original debt.

I feel I have paid enough. I looked at the possibilities. I could file BK, or I could just stop paying. What happens in either case ? In either/both cases, they simply do not get another penny.

I do not want to file bankruptcy, for reasons I will not discuss here. So, I just stopped paying, exept on the two cards I have kept.



When it came to the 'consequences'... I expected phone calls, letters, and harrassment. I have maintained a policy of silence. I have not answered any letters, or phone calls. And I screen my phone calls.

I knew there was the possibility of it going to legal lengths. Especially if I just stayed silent, which I have.

I let it go through the first court stuff, and let them get the judgement, without a word.

Because... If there is any way that they can take something from me, and they do... well, more power to them.

I hope they can't take anything. And if they do, everything I have is worth so little, that once they take what they can, I will be truly action proof, because there will be nothing left.

It's my way of putting things behind me. Just like BK is the way most people put the same things behind them.

Once things have gone as far as they can, then whatever is left, is what I will have to start over with. Just like rebuilding after a fire.

I don't have that many years left on this planet. I am not going to be buying a new car, or a new house, or going back to school, etc. I don't need new credit.

They can't take all of my property. At the most they'll be able to take that third lot. But I don't think they can take even that, because it is my access.

They MAY be able to put a lein on my property. I don't care if they do that. They can't 'force' the lein. And I don't care if there is a lein on the property, because I will never borrow against it anyway, and I'll be here until I die. After that, they can have it, for all I care.

Bottom line, like I said, this is my way of putting it all behind me. I don't know what is going to happen. But I do know that after this, there will truly be nothing left for anyone else to come after. And I will 'rebuild' from there.

I shouldn't have re-started this thread. I just hoped that someone here had been through the same sort of thing and could give me an idea of what to expect.

I will come back here and update this thread with the results, once I know them, myself.

Thanks to all.

[helpmeout]

They can probably get a lien on your property for the amount of debt, including legal fees, owed. Which means you or your estate can't sell the property without first paying off what is owed.

[keepmine]

You need to brush up on the Rules of Civil Procedure in your state.
If they already have a judgment what you may be ignoring is a court ordered "debtors exam" where you are required to disclose your finances and assets. Failure to do so can be considered contempt of court and you could well be jailed until you comply.
And frankly why do you think a judge would even care if palntiffs lawyers are lazy and inept? As long as they're following the RCP in your state a judge could care less.

[shoopy]

I'm probably misunderstanding something, but I thought that a judgement lien could be secured against any property or real estate, and sold to satisfy a judgement.

I am certainly not a lawyer, and have no knowledge of your states laws, so there is a good chance that I am totally wrong.

In any case, I respect your decision and sincerely wish you the very best luck.

[Selador]

I'm probably misunderstanding something, but I thought that a judgement lien could be secured against any property or real estate, and sold to satisfy a judgement.

I am certainly not a lawyer, and have no knowledge of your states laws, so there is a good chance that I am totally wrong.

In any case, I respect your decision and sincerely wish you the very best luck.

This is a homestead state.

If they can't take the property straight out, they can't take it in an end run-a-round by filing and forcing a lein.

What I am waiting to find out is whether they can or can not take one of the lots. I know they can't take all of them.

If they can take a lot, they won't need a lein. If they can't take any of the lots, and get a lein instead, they can't force that lein. They'll have to wait until I sell or die. And since I'll die here, I'm not concerned about a lein.

Note, the above has already been tested by the local roads association. They couldn't force a lein.

If HD 'gets' the property, they'll have to pay the roads association lein on it before they see any profit on it themselves. And they won't get enough from the property to even pay off that lein, let alone their own costs, etc...

If HD gets a lein instead, they'll have to get in line behind the roads association.

[shoopy]

OK, sounds like a plan.

[wantout]

The HD card is a citi bank card.

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Selador

I moved all of the new posts into a new thread, since your other one is almost a year old. We prefer that old threads not be resurrected, instead, please create a new one.

Thanks!

Here is the original thread:

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?72428-Keeping-credit-cards

[Selador]

Hi Selador

I moved all of the new posts into a new thread, since your other one is almost a year old. We prefer that old threads not be resurrected, instead, please create a new one.

Thanks!

Here is the original thread:

Thank you VERY much for that !

I didn't know if it would be more irritating to the regulars if I just added to the old thread, or if I started a new one about the old stuff.

[Selador]

You need to brush up on the Rules of Civil Procedure in your state.
If they already have a judgment what you may be ignoring is a court ordered "debtors exam" where you are required to disclose your finances and assets. Failure to do so can be considered contempt of court and you could well be jailed until you comply.
And frankly why do you think a judge would even care if palntiffs lawyers are lazy and inept? As long as they're following the RCP in your state a judge could care less.

I ignored the intial stuff. I wanted them to get the judgement.

We are now at the debtor's exam stage, and I have not ignored this. This is what I am going to be in court on thursday for.

The court may very well not care.

But I intend to point out how they have all along tried to get me to do their work for them, and now they have lied to the court to get the court to force me to do their work for them...

IOW: They have stated in court documents that they unequivicably KNOW that I am married, and that I am employed. Not that they believe I might be. That they KNOW that I AM.

I have been divorce for more than 20 years, and have lived with no one since. And I haven't been employed for more than 15 years.

Both, flat out lies by the HD lawyers to the courts. With the intent to get the courts to force me to do the work that the HD lawyers themselves should have done ages ago. They never should have wasted the court's time with this.

Again, maybe the court will not care. But I do care, and just on principle alone I decided that the HD lawyers will not get one bit of the information they seek, before it is presented in court.