Why is my "case closed" but don't I have a "final decree"????? Is this kosher??

[KevFinnerty]

I'm hoping someone can answer this. I am totally confused as usual.

My BK case was "closed" last year. That is, debts were discharged, the trustee abandoned all assets, the judge discharged the trustee, and he "closed" my case. Yet nowhere do I have anything that uses the words "final decree". I'll explain later why I am asking this.

The exact wording of the last document on file which I received, and that is also on PACER is this:

"And NOW, this [blank] day of [blank], it appearing that the trustee in the above entitled matter has filed his report and that the trustee has performed all other duties required in the administration of the debtor's estate, it is ORDERED that the trustee be discharged and relieved of any trust, and this case be, and the same hereby is, closed."

Note that the [blank] date stuff is NOT filled in. This was electronically filed and signed by the judge last September, but for some odd reason the form does not have the date filled in (??).

I ask about this because I recently had to contact Freddie Mac about my mortgage and how I am trying to get a loan modification through my bank, but Freddie Mac told me that they CANNOT speak to me since I am still in "active" bankruptcy. I told them my case was closed and that they can look it up in PACER, but they said that my bank (Chase) who "services" the loan has to update their records in order for Freddie Mac to "know" that my case is closed.

None of this makes a bit of sense to me but someone told me that without a piece of paper that says "final decree" on it, my case is still opened (wtf???). I haven't been able to ask my lawyer yet, other than when the above document was issued, I did specifically ask the lawyer's paralegal about the dates being blank, and if this is the end of the BK or what, and her reply was yes it is done, the blank dates do not matter, and that I won't be receiving any other documents.

Any comments??? Thanks.

[tobee43]

you are issued two seperate orders, not a "final decree". one order is the judge signing the discharge and a different order signed by the judge on the "close". they are two seperate orders.

[despritfreya]

The entry on the PACER docket is what "closes" the case. Print out the docket and send it to Chase. Getting some paper pusher at Chase to pick up the file and take it down the hall to loss mitigation is a whole different ball game and. . . good luck with that one.

Des.

[Drazil65]

Hi, we were discharged and closed on the same day as well. We rec'd the discharge paper in the mail as did the creditors. In the district we filed in they do not issue a hardcopy paper stating closed status. I had to printout the pacer report and fax it to several of the creditors to "prove/show" the case has been closed as well as discharged. Once they rec'd the fax they took my husband out of active bankruptcy and closed the files.

[tobee43]

really?? we are in the middle district of florida and they sent everything "hard" copy. we never used pacer at all. i'm wondering if you have a pacer account if that system by passes hard copies??

[KevFinnerty]

you are issued two seperate orders, not a "final decree". one order is the judge signing the discharge and a different order signed by the judge on the "close". they are two seperate orders.

I understand my debts being discharged are different from the closing the case order. My debts were discharged around 2/2011. My case was closed 9/12. What I'm asking is that do I also need a piece of paper that uses some kind of verbage like "final decree"?? My sister insists my case is not closed until I get that, but I've never even heard of such a thing until now.

[KevFinnerty]

The entry on the PACER docket is what "closes" the case. Print out the docket and send it to Chase. Getting some paper pusher at Chase to pick up the file and take it down the hall to loss mitigation is a whole different ball game and. . . good luck with that one.

Des.

Anyone know who to contact at Chase to deal with this? My customer rep has been pretty much worthless in everything else thus far so I doubt he would know how to handle this either.

[KevFinnerty]

Hi, we were discharged and closed on the same day as well. ......

My debts were discharged about 7 months prior to my case being closed, it didn't happen on the same day for me. The order I quoted above discharged the trustee in my case. At the same time as that the judge closed my case (as I understand it).

I'm all confused about not having something that says the words "final decree" on it now though - thanks to discovering that Freddie Mac says my case is not closed and my sister insisting this is because I do not have a "final decree" (I think she is probably wrong though, acting like she is a know it all lawyer when she hasn't a clue though, which is now resulting in ME being confused!).

[chiwawa]

I am in California, I have Pacer account, I received discharged order in the mail but not closed order. The discharged order was 2/2012.

[tobee43]

I understand my debts being discharged are different from the closing the case order. My debts were discharged around 2/2011. My case was closed 9/12. What I'm asking is that do I also need a piece of paper that uses some kind of verbage like "final decree"?? My sister insists my case is not closed until I get that, but I've never even heard of such a thing until now.

well, that maybe your sister can help to tell you were your suppose to get one? as i have never heard of a final decree in this type of law. it is a signed order of closing of the case. that's all it is. depending on the state or if you filed federal or your state, they can be word a bit different, however they are still an order that is issued from the court.

i would suggest you call the bk court clerk and ask her if PA issues final decrees??? that may resolve this issue for you directly from the horses mouth.

[KevFinnerty]

well, that maybe your sister can help to tell you were your suppose to get one? as i have never heard of a final decree in this type of law. it is a signed order of closing of the case. that's all it is. depending on the state or if you filed federal or your state, they can be word a bit different, however they are still an order that is issued from the court.

i would suggest you call the bk court clerk and ask her if PA issues final decrees??? that may resolve this issue for you directly from the horses mouth.

Thanks Tobee. I was able to speak to my lawyer's office again. My case is closed. There is no such thing as a "final decree" per se. Whatever it is that Chase has failed to do to cause Freddie Mac to think I am in active bankruptcy (& therefore refuse to speak to me) it has nothing to do with the actual status of my BK, or that I am missing a "final decree". The situation is just one more thing that Chase has screwed up in relation to my BK and foreclosure (& soon to be mortgage modification which I'm sure they'll find ways to screw that up beyond all comprehension as well).

This is just one more example btw, of all the "advice" and "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW" type of "advice" that I have gone through over the past 2 years during my financial crisis with people like my sister, that although they mean well, they have no idea what the hell they are talking about (but act like they do).

[tobee43]

Thanks Tobee. I was able to speak to my lawyer's office again. My case is closed. There is no such thing as a "final decree" per se. Whatever it is that Chase has failed to do to cause Freddie Mac to think I am in active bankruptcy (& therefore refuse to speak to me) it has nothing to do with the actual status of my BK, or that I am missing a "final decree". The situation is just one more thing that Chase has screwed up in relation to my BK and foreclosure (& soon to be mortgage modification which I'm sure they'll find ways to screw that up beyond all comprehension as well).

This is just one more example btw, of all the "advice" and "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW" type of "advice" that I have gone through over the past 2 years during my financial crisis with people like my sister, that although they mean well, they have no idea what the hell they are talking about (but act like they do).

your most welcome KevFinnerty. i'm certain your sister meant well. however, it does get a bit confusing when ones you do trust add information that may not apply to your situation.

by the way i have chase and i have never seen a company that doesn' know what the other hand is doing. i can't tell you what we went through with them with our attempt at a loan mod. it was a real joke. we did it prior to our filing. and, by the way they have contacted us within the past couple of months to find our what our intentions are with that house we surrendered almost 4 and a half years ago? what is the matter with these people.

i would see if you can go in. it's much better than the terrible phone maze of madness with them. that way you have a face, a direct person you can contact to see what they can do. i know it's a pain, but i think you may have a better opportunity to accomplish your task.

best of luck!

[KevFinnerty]

by the way i have chase and i have never seen a company that doesn' know what the other hand is doing. i can't tell you what we went through with them with our attempt at a loan mod. it was a real joke. we did it prior to our filing. and, by the way they have contacted us within the past couple of months to find our what our intentions are with that house we surrendered almost 4 and a half years ago? what is the matter with these people.

OMG I could tell you story after story after story about incompetent these people are. People who are in charge/decide the FATE of our lives/homes. And it is not just Chase. It is their lawyers as well. No wonder there is such a huge banking/housing crisis. It is a wonder to me how anything at all "works" in the financial/banking world after what I have witnessed.

[tobee43]

OMG I could tell you story after story after story about incompetent these people are. People who are in charge/decide the FATE of our lives/homes. And it is not just Chase. It is their lawyers as well. No wonder there is such a huge banking/housing crisis. It is a wonder to me how anything at all "works" in the financial/banking world after what I have witnessed.

oh SO true!!! it's so unreal. of course that's because all of us "older" experienced people were let go and now the world is being run by so many that lack the experience and expertise that this entire country needs to survive. it's really terrible.

[pamkev]

oh SO true!!! it's so unreal. of course that's because all of us "older" experienced people were let go and now the world is being run by so many that lack the experience and expertise that this entire country needs to survive. it's really terrible.

Totally agree. My hubby is a machinist and the younger people who come in for a job have not idea what the job is all about. The stay maybe a month and then leave Pam