"The Sherrif is coming to serve you papers..."

[NSH]

Okay, quick question: I live in NY City (Brooklyn) and I have been in serious debt since 2007! Anyway, filing BK is NOT an option for me now even though I would love to. There are just so many obstacles to it, not the least of which being I owned a business from 1998 through 2006 and another one (this one went belly up hence my many hundreds of thousands of debt including IRS and State). This all makes a potential BK very expensive for me. Anyway, forget that.

My question is should I be worried? Lately I have been getting calls on my cell phone (and my Dad has been getting calls as well, he has the same name as me) saying something to the effect of, "The sheriff will be coming to your house to serve you with papers..." and I believe they tried to confirm my address.

Now my Dad knows enough to simply say he is not me and he refuses to give them any information about me beyond that.

I have no house phone so a lookup of my phone number would not yield my address. I NEVER confirm my address to these people EVER. So unless they are able to check with my utilities they have no way of knowing that I even live where I live.

So again, should I be worried they will break into my house to troll for possessions?

Oh and I have NO assets. No bank accounts, real estate, investments, or anything!

My occupation has me paid as a 1099 so nobody has tried to seize my real pay, though I have a whole load of levies against me that have threatened garnishes. Apparently nobody seems to go after 1099 income, at least they haven't in the last four years!

Note: I am one of the many New Yorkers in this forum who have gotten threatening letters from the City Marshal (Rxxxxx Mxxxx, I believe is his name) in the form of a "Marshal's Notice Of Execution," but so far they have NOT come to my home to try to seize any personal possessions. Or at least they have never knocked on my door when I was home!

Now I got that initial letter (which I posted about here in this forum) almost years ago!

[frogger]

So unless they are able to check with my utilities they have no way of knowing that I even live where I live.

That's not too difficult.

[BarkingCat]

Apparently nobody seems to go after 1099 income, at least they haven't in the last four years!

IRS will most definitely go after 1099 income. Happened to me about 8 years ago. They levied an impending payment from one of my clients.

[TheBajan]

NSH,

I'm not sure I understand your question. From what you are saying, you owe hundreds of thousands to creditors including some to the IRS and the State and you don't think you can file BK. With that in mind.... you appear to be trying to live under the radar as much as possible.

1. How long do you think you will be able to keep hiding?
2. What's your game plan? What do you hope to accomplish by avoiding these issues?
3. You have no assets.... what about your business? If you are drawing an income then wouldn't it be an asset?

I'm trying to get a better idea of your situation so I can understand your question better. I'm sure there are people here who can help you but I think we need more info. As far as anyone breaking into your house, I don't know if that is legal. Maybe someone else could answer it for you.

Best of luck. Please give us more info... we would love to help if we can.

The Bajan

[NSH]

NSH,you appear to be trying to live under the radar as much as possible.

Yeah, pretty much.

1. How long do you think you will be able to keep hiding?
2. What's your game plan? What do you hope to accomplish by avoiding these issues?

Honestly, the answer to both questions is, I don't know. I don't have the money do do a BK, certainly not the right way. Because of the complexities of my situation, the vast amount of moneys I owe, and the fact that two businesses were involved, I was told that the US Trustee is going to be so far up my ass that a simple BK which would cost about $1.5K or so is out of the question. Since you get what you pay for AND I don't have the $5,000.00 to $7,000.00 necessary to do this right, I am not doing it at all. At least not yet. I have been living with this insanity for five years now, well five years this coming Fall is when I stopped paying creditors. No, this is NOT something I am happy about. And if they start trying to attach my 1099 income, which so far they have not, then I will simply stop working and move into my mother's basement. I barely make enough to "get by" right now.

Oh well.

3. You have no assets.... what about your business? If you are drawing an income then wouldn't it be an asset?

It isn't a business I own anymore. I do something called "office coverage" and I get paid per day on a 1099.

I'm trying to get a better idea of your situation so I can understand your question better. I'm sure there are people here who can help you but I think we need more info. As far as anyone breaking into your house, I don't know if that is legal. Maybe someone else could answer it for you.

Yeah I hear that they cannot actually break in BUT that the City Marshal here in NY does threaten that. Some lawyers say they can and some say they cannot, not even here in NYC, but I just don't know.

[TheBajan]

Okay... so you NEED a plan. You already know that eventually you will have to file. If you haven't done anything illegal, and you truly have no assets, then whatever the US trustee does or doesn't do.... you have the same right to file BK and start over as the rest of us. From what you've said here, you have absolutely nothing to lose except the stress of hiding and wondering when they will come after the little money you are being paid.

Take it for what it's worth but my suggestion.... go ahead and move in with your mom [as that seems to be a viable option]. I know it's humbling to reach out and "impose" on family that way but she's your mom and I bet she loves you. Save your money like a madman and pay every dime to a competent attorney (after interviewing several to find the right one), and then file. Even if it takes a year to save enough money, do it and get this over with!!!! It's coming whether you want it to or not and the last five years have been hell for you. Accept it, get it done, and move on with your life. If you haven't been filing your taxes.... DEFINITELY FILE right away! Not paying your taxes will leave you with a tax bill... that's it. Not filing your taxes can send you to jail so file right away even though you may owe money and you can't pay. Stay legal. We don't have debtors prison so even though you may feel criminal for being in debt, you're not.

Like I said, take it for what it's worth. My heart goes out to you. I have felt the hopeless desperation and fear that you are expressing. Read a lot on this forum. There is a wealth of knowledge. Don't assume your case is just too complicated to file. We all have unique stories here and if you are willing to really share yours with us, you will find answers and encouragement.

Wishing you the very best,
The Bajan

[TheBajan]

Because of the complexities of my situation, the vast amount of moneys I owe, and the fact that two businesses were involved....

It isn't a business I own anymore.

One more thing I wanted to mention is that it's been so long since your business's failed that I don't think it factors anymore. Typically, they only look back at the past two years. In our own case, we closed the doors on our business last June and filed just this past February. The trustee never said a word about it. I don't know all your particulars but I do know that if your business failed that long ago it shouldn't matter to the trustee at all. I would look into it more before dismissing the idea of a normal BK.

[karm43]

Plus it goes by your last 6 months income. Feel your pain.

[NSH]

Thanks guys!!

Oh and just a few things I want to respond to:

Okay... so you NEED a plan. You already know that eventually you will have to file. If you haven't done anything illegal, and you truly have no assets, then whatever the US trustee does or doesn't do.... you have the same right to file BK and start over as the rest of us. From what you've said here, you have absolutely nothing to lose except the stress of hiding and wondering when they will come after the little money you are being paid.

That is what it comes down to.

Take it for what it's worth but my suggestion.... go ahead and move in with your mom [as that seems to be a viable option]. I know it's humbling to reach out and "impose" on family that way but she's your mom and I bet she loves you. Save your money like a madman and pay every dime to a competent attorney (after interviewing several to find the right one), and then file. Even if it takes a year to save enough money, do it and get this over with!!!!

It may take even longer than that, but at this point I have become patient. I also forgot to mention that I do have a kind of sort of plan, but it is also kind of.sort of dumb: And that is that waiting longer has, as you said, made everyone I owe money to a little desperate. I am already getting letters of settlement offers for pennies on the dollar. Now this, right now, is still a little useless, because, to be quite honest, I have about as much chance of paying ten percent of my debt (yes, a few creditors have offered settlements that low!!) as I do of paying 100%, which really sucks, In other words, fifty thousand might as well be five hundred!

Another concern I have is that I hear that the IRS has a nasty tendency to audit you when you seek to discharge their debts! Now, this is another reason I have been waiting so long! Because, honestly, I don't need the crazy stress of being audited when a business that lost SO MUCH MONEY as my last one was involved. I kept terrible records (probably part of the reason the business failed lol) and honestly I would be afraid that an audit of those years would be very bad. On the plus side, I went out of business in 2008 and filed my 2006, 2007, and 2008 returns in 2009. And no I have not paid DIME ONE on any of those years either! My big year was 2005 (which I filed in 2006) and that year I made 150 grand...so that is a huge liability year for me. The only years I am behind filing now are 09, 10, and 11. But I made so little money my tax liability will be miniscule for those years. Maybe I made 20-25K for two of them and 12K for 2011. I am sort of trying really hard to get out of the "audit period" for the years I was in business. Meaning, I am hoping that when I do file BK that the IRS only audits me for the years after my business closed (2008 I closed).

It's coming whether you want it to or not and the last five years have been hell for you. Accept it, get it done, and move on with your life. If you haven't been filing your taxes.... DEFINITELY FILE right away! Not paying your taxes will leave you with a tax bill... that's it. Not filing your taxes can send you to jail so file right away even though you may owe money and you can't pay. Stay legal. We don't have debtors prison so even though you may feel criminal for being in debt, you're not.

Yeah, I am only 3 years behind on the filing and I know how it works (sort of lol) because in mid 2009 I was sent a threatening letter saying if I did not file ALL three back years, that they would "file for me" and assess me from my highest year as if all my years were $150K! Nice huh? So I got a one month extension and filed lickety split sending them papers only, no money! My intent is to file 09, 10, and 11 as soon as I can save up the cash to pay my accountant to do it. The only reason I still use her is because she is VERY GOOD, it seems, at keeping her clients from being audited and she is willing to do each year for very little money.

Like I said, take it for what it's worth. My heart goes out to you. I have felt the hopeless desperation and fear that you are expressing. Read a lot on this forum. There is a wealth of knowledge. Don't assume your case is just too complicated to file. We all have unique stories here and if you are willing to really share yours with us, you will find answers and encouragement.

Wishing you the very best,The Bajan

Thank you SO MUCH!!!

Another very VAIN and probably irrational hope is (and this would require waiting too long) don't taxes come off your record after 9 or 10 years? I mean, if 2005 was my big year and I filed in 2006, then wouldn't I stop being libel for them in 2015 or 2016? Not saying I can wait that long, just wondering. Also what about all this debt? Doesn't it disappear off my credit report at some point? Is there a statute of limitation for its collection? Mind you, I am aware this is a horrible way to handle this as it keeps me from moving forward with my life, but if all these debts (at least the ones that are substantial) happened from 2007 and back, is there a way to just wait it all out as opposed to having a BK on my credit report for 10 years?

Stupid I know, but it is something I am curious about.

[NSH]

One more thing I wanted to mention is that it's been so long since your business's failed that I don't think it factors anymore. Typically, they only look back at the past two years. In our own case, we closed the doors on our business last June and filed just this past February. The trustee never said a word about it. I don't know all your particulars but I do know that if your business failed that long ago it shouldn't matter to the trustee at all. I would look into it more before dismissing the idea of a normal BK.

This I didn't know! This might change eveything!

[AngelinaCat]

If you haven't already done so, you need to set up three or four free consultations with different attorneys and see what they have to say and offer to you. It always helps to have different 'takes' on your situation, even if you don't choose to use a particular attorney.

[NSH]

If you haven't already done so, you need to set up three or four free consultations with different attorneys and see what they have to say and offer to you. It always helps to have different 'takes' on your situation, even if you don't choose to use a particular attorney.

You want to hear something funny, AngelinaCat? (Well not so much funny "ha ha" as it is funny pathetic!)

Even though I knew I was a long way from actually being able to retain a lawyer much less file, I spoke to a few lawyers...well, more than a few actually. Most of them told me that taxes are ABSOLUTELY not discharged in BK. Now, mind you, I am in NY City not Podunk and these people still believe this urban legend. Hell, even my accountant keeps telling me the same thing. She thinks I am dreaming if I expect my taxes to be discharged, and she is a CPA! I am amazed at the ignorance I see.

Anyway, the one problem I am going to have is given the sheer amount of debt (as I mentioned above) my BK is likely going to cost me between $5 and $7K even though I have a few friends who were able to do an easy BK for like a mere $1.5K.

[TheBajan]

Another very VAIN and probably irrational hope is (and this would require waiting too long) don't taxes come off your record after 9 or 10 years? I mean, if 2005 was my big year and I filed in 2006, then wouldn't I stop being libel for them in 2015 or 2016? Not saying I can wait that long, just wondering. Also what about all this debt? Doesn't it disappear off my credit report at some point? Is there a statute of limitation for its collection? Mind you, I am aware this is a horrible way to handle this as it keeps me from moving forward with my life, but if all these debts (at least the ones that are substantial) happened from 2007 and back, is there a way to just wait it all out as opposed to having a BK on my credit report for 10 years?

Stupid I know, but it is something I am curious about.

I've never heard of the IRS just saying "hey... never mind". They aren't going to forget about it. I've been a tax preparer in the past and I do know that while it's not customary for them to audit back beyond the past three years, they CAN audit you from the beginning of time IF THEY HAVE SUSPICION of fraudulent filing. That tells me that even if your tax debt was 20 years old, they still want their money. A colleague had a client audited by the state of Maryland for state income taxes they claimed he owed all the way back in 1984! That audit took place just 3 or 4 years ago. I don't believe there is a statue of limitations on tax debt.

PS.... file those 09, 10 and 11 taxes pronto and get on with your life!

[NSH]

I've never heard of the IRS just saying "hey... never mind". They aren't going to forget about it.

Then clearly you know far more about this than I do. All I know is that a lawyer a few years back told me that there is apparently a statute of limitations on back taxes, which I believe he said was either 9 or 10 years from the date of filing. I have also found stuff on the Internet about it as well, but again, I can't speak from a position of knowledge about this topic. It could be bull for all I know. But the way it was explained to me is that once you file, then the SOL kicks in but if you fail to file there is no SOL. Oh, and also I think I read that if fraud is involved there is also no SOL on the back taxes.

PS.... file those 09, 10 and 11 taxes pronto and get on with your life!

I definitely will. I am looking at probably filing all that within the next few months, hopefully by summer's end. Thanks!

[TheBajan]

Then clearly you know far more about this than I do.

Please don't assume this. "I've been a tax preparer" is not the same as "I am a tax professional". Also, I've known a lot of "professionals" who are ignorant about tax law. For example, one person I know has been preparing taxes for over 30 years. I have the utmost respect for him as a person. His clients absolutely love him and send him their taxes from all over the world... they won't use anyone else. I happen to know for a fact that he doesn't believe debt that is discharged in BK is forgivable income. One of his clients filed BK and based on the 1099's that he received for the discharged debt, this professional let him know that he owed the IRS over $100,000. !!!! That's a BIG MISTAKE! But his clients have so much confidence in him that they never question if he is right or not. So again, don't assume I know all about this. Just because I've never heard of it doesn't make it untrue.

BTW... what I said about tax professionals is true of other professionals as well. We spoke to several attorneys who would have steered us in the wrong direction with our BK before we finally found someone with enough knowledge to help us. You should too. It really sounds like you could file a 7 and be done with this. Chin up.... you're not as far from freedom as you think you are.