Those that used an attorney

[TomTea31]

Did the attorney have you fill out parts of the petition yourself? I am thinking about hiring a specific attorney. He emailed me his fee agreement and questionnaire. The "questionnaire" is essential parts of the petition, 45-pages of it. I was just wondering if this is normal behavior or not? I do like this attorney and would prob hire him to take care of my chap 7 if it's normal for them to do that but it just strike me as odd since I'm going to pay him $1100 to do the paperwork for me. Why do I have to fill out more than half of the petition without assistance? I think having an attorney on my petition may be better than filing pro se for my specific situation.

Would love your opinion on this. Is it standard?

[Drazil65]

We had to fill out quite a bit of paperwork for our attorney. It seems they handle several new cases a day and in order to keep things straight as well as getting your facts down in your own handwriting, it is very reasonable for them to ask you to fill this out. They will make sure the petition is complete and ready to be filed but your input will be needed and is expected.

[AngelinaCatHub]

What you are experiencing is normal. Only you know your debts and deficiencies. He will later fill a copy of your paperwork in a form on his computer in type form and have you reread your inputed info for accuracy. You will sign it, then electronically he sends it to PACER and you will get your case number right away. Then you're on your way. 'Hub

[HHM]

Yes, a questionnaire is fairly standard practice. As Drazil65 points outs, only you know your financial situation, so the attorney has to get information from you some how. So, there are only 3 methods.

1. Written Questionnaire (paper or online)
2. Interview (attorney or paralegal sits with you and literally fills out the petition with you), in my view, this method is the most effective.
3. Combination of the two.

When it comes to the questionnaire, the difference between attorneys is in the level of detail asked in the questionnaire.

No matter the method, there will be certain documents the attorney needs that you must supply, pay stubs, copies of tax returns, bank statements, monthly bills, etc.

So yes, no matter if you pay $1,400 for your BK or $3,400 for your BK, you, the debtor, will have homework

[mountanddo]

I was sent a packet in the mail with a fairly long booklet with step by step instructions on how to fill it out. It actually was pretty well prepared and she checked only the things I needed to do. She included all the paperwork I needed to gather and the instructions stated not to send anything back until I finished the booklet and gathered all the paperwork at once. It avoids having the attorney have a half completed petion and missing paperwork.

[sunshinepa]

We all had to do paperwork. Look at it this way, if you are comfortable with the attorney, do the homework, review it carefully, you'll pass the test and and hopefully get a "D" for discharge! And incidently, that's a much better price than I paid and I was a simple, under median CH 7. Well worth that price if you are comfortable with the attorney!

[MSbklawyer]

I used to do it that way -- send the client a questionnaire that tracks the schedules and have them fill it in the best they could. But I would get dozens of calls along the lines of: "This thing is asking if I own any annuities. What an annuity is? If I gots one I sho' don't know nuthin' about it." And "How much is this dog I got worth? It's asking for the value of any animals I own. I got the dog free but I wouldn't let him go for that. So do I put zero?"

So, I started giving them the questionnaire with instructions to answer only what they knew and to hold all questions until we met in person. That didn't help, they still called incessantly with questions like that. So for me anyway, the easiest way to do it is to just sit down with them and go through the thing. I get puzzled looks when I ask them "Do you own any annuities"? And that, for me, answers the question. If you don't know what an annuity is, you don't own one.

I envy lawyers who have clients who are sophisticated enough to use the "MyCase" program where the clients answer the questionnaire on their own computer and email it back to you and it automatically dumps their responses into the bankruptcy software and then you go through and complete and clean things up. But alas, along with hurricanes and 100% humidity, I guess there's a price for practicing law in the most illiterate state in the union.

[HHM]

I envy lawyers who have clients who are sophisticated enough to use the "MyCase" program where the clients answer the questionnaire on their own computer and email it back to you and it automatically dumps their responses into the bankruptcy software and then you go through and complete and clean things up.

Those attorneys have the exact same problems you described, they just won't admit it; or have so few clients that they have time to deal with the incompleteness

[TomTea31]

Ok great. Thanks for clearing that up for me. That just confused me because I wasn't expecting to do any work. don't get me wrong, I have no problem with doing my "homework" if I am supposed to and what you guys are saying makes sense.

I really like this attorney because he has experience with what I'm dealing with with the insurance company that I owe 19k to, and knows what to do to prevent my license from being suspended. He's just a couple hundred more than the other attorneys I looked into but seems to be better able to handle my case and IS willing to answer my questions instead of throwing me to a paralegal.

So it looks like I'm hiring an attorney!

Oh I just have to mention this because I'm still shocked at the rudeness. So when I started calling around I would ask what their bracket is for chap 7. I understand it's different per case but they all have a bottom dollar that they start with. I had a couple secretaries who just hung up on me in mid sentence! I'd ask what their bottom dollar is for bankruptcy and they'd tell me and then just hang up. Seriously? First of all I need to know that info because it does me and the attorney no good if I'm coming in for free consult on a BMW when I can only afford a Hyundai. I'm pretty sure the attorney would rather me NOT waste his time if I know I can't afford him, right?

[MSbklawyer]

I had a couple secretaries who just hung up on me in mid sentence! I'd ask what their bottom dollar is for bankruptcy and they'd tell me and then just hang up.

That is what I called a well-trained secretary. If anyone called my office asking what my "bottom dollar" is for bankruptcy, my secretary would hang up on them too. With my blessing.

Seriously?

Seriously.

I'll discuss with a potential client what our fees are for the ordinary, uncomplicated, standard, off-the-rack bankruptcy and explain that the fees can go up or down from there. But I'm not going to quote a 'bottom dollar' figure for them without knowing anything about their case. All they do with that figure is take it around to other attorneys trying to get them to beat it and try to hold you to it even when their case turns out to be far more complicated than they originally presented it as. As with anything, "how much is this going to cost me" is a fair question to ask in a bankruptcy. But this is not a used car deal. A lawyer cannot sell an "AS IS -- NO WARRANTY" bankruptcy. The lawyer doesn't get to wash his hands of it if things go wrong because it was being done on the cheap. If price is your overriding concern to the exclusion of competent legal representation, then get a non-lawyer petition preparer to do it.

I'm not directing this at you, but for some reason clients who open the conversation with that "bottom dollar" question almost invariably turn out to be the worst clients who care more about getting things done cheap than getting them done right. Even worse than those are the ones who say "Lawyer Johnson up the street from you said that he'd do it for $X. Can you beat that?" It took me a long time to learn to say it, but I tell them that it sounds to me like Lawyer Johnson has found himself a new client and wish them well.

[TomTea31]

If anyone called my office asking what my "bottom dollar" is for bankruptcy, my secretary would hang up on them too. With my blessing.



Seriously.

I'll discuss with a potential client what our fees are for the ordinary, uncomplicated, standard, off-the-rack bankruptcy and explain that the fees can go up or down from there. But I'm not going to quote a 'bottom dollar' figure for them without knowing anything about their case. All they do with that figure is take it around to other attorneys trying to get them to beat it and try to hold you to it even when their case turns out to be far more complicated than they originally presented it as.

I'm not directing this at you, but for some reason clients who open the conversation with that question almost invariably turn out to be the worst clients who care more about getting things done cheap than getting them done right. Even worse than those are the ones who say "Lawyer Johnson up the street from you said that he'd do it for $X. Can you beat that?" It took me a long time to learn to say it, but I tell them that it sounds to me like Lawyer Johnson has found himself a new client and wish them well.

I only asked what it "started at", I didn't actually say "bottom dollar". I was trying to get an idea of what they charge so I know if I can afford them. But a secretary who just hangs up on you is rude and I would NEVER feel comfortable hiring someone who has a secretary that can't answer a basic question about fees. I want to be comfortable with my attorney and his fee, and I don't need to like his secretary but she needs to be somewhat decent with customer service. The two that I talked to were extremely rude.


*Darn, so I can't type into the forms the attorney gave me. I must hand write it all in. Looks like my Sunday just turned into a long one LOL

[HHM]

"Started at" is the same question simply worded more politely, the response is going to be the same.

Secretaries are told not to quote fees because they have no basis to do so, that is a job for the attorney, sorry if you don't "like" it, but that is reality.

You are working off the "false" assumption that there is a "price" list like there are for cars, here is the base price for BK, and if you want these options, it will be X amount more. It doesn't work that way, everyone's case is different. Bankruptcy is, after all, a customized "service" for each individual.

[mountanddo]

You are working off the "false" assumption that there is a "price" list like there are for cars, here is the base price for BK, and if you want these options, it will be X amount more. It doesn't work that way, everyone's case is different. Bankruptcy is, after all, a customized "service" for each individual.

While this may be true there is a big difference between starting out at $1500 for a simple case and starting out at $3000. Is the $3000 attorney better than the $1500 one? Maybe not. You'd have to make that determination yourself. That being said, I wouldn't set up an appointment with an attorney if I knew their fees were at the top of what I could pay for. With my case it didn't really matter what the cost was to me as they are rolled into my plan. You can be sure though if one attorney said they were going to charge $1000 and another $3000 I'd be asking the attorney that charges $3000 why I should go with him. It's ridiculous to say that price doesn't matter when searching for a bankruptcy attorney..after all you are going bankrupt. Before anyone says anything about that comment, price isn't the only factor you should use however it should be a consideration.

[TomTea31]

Started at is the same question simply worded more politely, the response is going to be the same.

Secretaries are told not to quote fees because they have no basis to do so, that is a job for the attorney, sorry if you don't "like" it, but that is reality.

You are working off the "false" assumption that there is a "price" list like there are for cars, here is the base price for BK, and if you want these options, it will be X amount more. It doesn't work that way, everyone's case is different. Bankruptcy is, after all, a customized "service" for each individual.

That makes sense but I did find that all but 2 were willing to tell me what their base fee was after talking to me briefly. That helped me decide if I could afford to hire them or not.

In any event I found someone and I just need to wait until the banks open on Tuesday to get a mo for the fees.

[TomTea31]

While this may be true there is a big difference between starting out at $1500 for a simple case and starting out at $3000. Is the $3000 attorney better than the $1500 one? Maybe not. You'd have to make that determination yourself. That being said, I wouldn't set up an appointment with an attorney if I knew their fees were at the top of what I could pay for. With my case it didn't really matter what the cost was to me as they are rolled into my plan. You can be sure though if one attorney said they were going to charge $1000 and another $3000 I'd be asking the attorney that charges $3000 why I should go with him. It's ridiculous to say that price doesn't matter when searching for a bankruptcy attorney..after all you are going bankrupt. Before anyone says anything about that comment, price isn't the only factor you should use however it should be a consideration.

This is exactly how I feel about it. I'm filing bk for a reason. I CANNOT afford a $3500 base fee. Why would I waste an attorneys time doing a free consult when I know I can't afford him. This isn't an option, it's not like I can pull an extra x amount from somewhere. If I don't have it I don't have it.