paying back HOA fees?

[goturtlego]

We currently owe for last years HOA fees and I was wanting to pay it but haven't yet as I am not sure if this is a good idea before filing BK. I don't want it to look like I am favoring our HOA but they're getting aggressive and I don't want any problems to arrise before we file (they have already put a lien on our house for it). Should I wait and list them on my BK? I have heard HOA's can be downright nasty if you do this.

Thanks for your help.

[2manybills]

I'm not sure how the State of Florida works, but any fees that were due pre-bk filing, will be discharged in bankruptcy, at least in California.

[tobee43]

in florida the hoa's lien is a superior lien and will not be discharged, even with bankrutpcy. i would pay it, as not to incur late fees and other charges which an hoa may impose if it's in the guidelines of their bi-laws.

[justbroke]

If you plan to keep your home, then you need to pay the back assessments (HOA dues).

If you don't plan to keep your home, but want to stay current on the "post-petition" dues, then BE VERY CAREFUL. The HOA will probably use your current payments to offset the pre-petition assessments! You would need to talk tot he HOA and make sure they understand that the pre-petition assessments were DISCHARGED and that you are paying the current assessments. You will probably also need to warn them that offsetting the new payments against the discharged debt will be met with a Show Cause hearing in the Bankruptcy court for sanctions.

[tobee43]

jb what type of pre-petition assessments??? atty fees?, or just the dues themselves?

[bcohen]

You can discharge personal liability for HOA dues, assessments, and penalties which occurred before the filing date in bankruptcy. However, in some states--including Florida--the money owed to the HOA becomes a lien on the property from the moment it accrues. So in such a state, you would need to pay that back if you want to keep the house/condo. If your plan is to surrender the property and "walk away" then you don't need to pay.

[tobee43]

oh you do in this hoa in florida whether you walk or not...or we put a lien against the person or they did until someone i know got involved and now we don't let go of the lien until the bank clears it. if it's not clear they can't clear the title and can't resale the property.

this hoa use to go after the old owner, no sense in beating a dead horse is what i say. so now we just don't lift the lien until the bank either pays ....don't really care how it's done, which it's the bank that most times just passes on the costs to the new owners. however, they were keeping after the individual owners up until last year when it changed.

[bcohen]

oh you do in this hoa in florida whether you walk or not...or we put a lien against the person or they did until someone i know got involved and now we don't let go of the lien until the bank clears it. if it's not clear they can't clear the title and can't resale the property.

this hoa use to go after the old owner, no sense in beating a dead horse is what i say. so now we just don't lift the lien until the bank either pays ....don't really care how it's done, which it's the bank that most times just passes on the costs to the new owners. however, they were keeping after the individual owners up until last year when it changed.

A HOA can legally go after the deeded owner if they don't file for bankruptcy, or for dues and fees that accrue after the person files for bankruptcy. Pre-petition HOA debt is discharged in bankruptcy although in some states, HOA dues are considered a statutory lien on the property from the moment they become due and payable.

Here in Arizona, there is no such "superlien" status; a HOA must file a lawsuit and win a judgement in order to place a lien on the property. So a person with HOA dues arrearages can file BK and discharge their pre-petition debt provided that no lien was filed and the HOA cannot attempt to collect that money. Of course, the person remains liable for dues, fees, and assessments which accrue after the BK filing date, and some HOA's are aggressively going after owners--even if they are surrendering the property--to collect that money.

[justbroke]

We are talking about whether the assessments "runs with the land" or is a personal liability. I was only trying to make a point about the owner's intention to surrender the property. As stated multiple times, if you want to keep the property, then you need to pay the past due assessments if you live in Florida. (The original poster is from Florida.)

In the end we all agree -- and it is int he law -- that post-petition HOA dues are not dischargeable and will follow State non-bankruptcy law. There are some theories that if the HOA covenants do not run with the land, then they may be nothing more than an executory contract and that could be discharged by the bankruptcy. (Again, if liens are introduced, that changes some of the discussion.)

[goturtlego]

A HOA can legally go after the deeded owner if they don't file for bankruptcy, or for dues and fees that accrue after the person files for bankruptcy. Pre-petition HOA debt is discharged in bankruptcy although in some states, HOA dues are considered a statutory lien on the property from the moment they become due and payable.

Here in Arizona, there is no such "superlien" status; a HOA must file a lawsuit and win a judgement in order to place a lien on the property. So a person with HOA dues arrearages can file BK and discharge their pre-petition debt provided that no lien was filed and the HOA cannot attempt to collect that money. Of course, the person remains liable for dues, fees, and assessments which accrue after the BK filing date, and some HOA's are aggressively going after owners--even if they are surrendering the property--to collect that money.

Yes true. Even after Bk, say it takes 2 years for the foreclosure to be done and over, it's very wise to keep the dues current. I do want to pay them. Because like I've said I don't want surprises even after we file Bk. They can get pretty aggressive with fees. I do have an itemized bill of what we owe. Once we pay the lien is lifted.

[justbroke]

Personally, I would never ever pay discharged HOA assessments (due and fees), lien or not, if I don't intend to keep the property. The personal responsibility for paying discharged assessments are, in fact, discharged and should remain that way (if you are not keeping the property).

Yes, they can get aggressive, but they have no right start or continue process to collect or offset a discharged debt in personam.

[tobee43]

A HOA can legally go after the deeded owner if they don't file for bankruptcy, or for dues and fees that accrue after the person files for bankruptcy. Pre-petition HOA debt is discharged in bankruptcy although in some states, HOA dues are considered a statutory lien on the property from the moment they become due and payable.

Here in Arizona, there is no such "superlien" status; a HOA must file a lawsuit and win a judgement in order to place a lien on the property. So a person with HOA dues arrearages can file BK and discharge their pre-petition debt provided that no lien was filed and the HOA cannot attempt to collect that money. Of course, the person remains liable for dues, fees, and assessments which accrue after the BK filing date, and some HOA's are aggressively going after owners--even if they are surrendering the property--to collect that money.

i understand, however, here in florida they are superior liens, and thus do not go away.

of course if the owner doesn't file bk, that's an entirely different story.

i know states vary about their HOA laws. here in florida they are pretty stringent.

i understand jb your point. i was just saying that since this is florida the OP would most likely owe the HOA dues either way. i know in our community the fees and costs far exceed the actual dues when someone is in arrears, of course, i also understand each HOA runs differently. we have one that will, in fact, work with the homeowner and in some cases have even waived the fees in situations such as job loss etc.

[goturtlego]

Personally, I would never ever pay discharged HOA assessments (due and fees), lien or not, if I don't intend to keep the property. The personal responsibility for paying discharged assessments are, in fact, discharged and should remain that way (if you are not keeping the property).

Yes, they can get aggressive, but they have no right start or continue process to collect or offset a discharged debt in personam.

We are trying to keep our home but preparing for the worst (foreclosure). We are waiting on the final paperwork on what they've
come up with for our new terms.