credit offers while in bk

[anafan]

My 341 hearing is Monday....FINALLY! Whoohoo! I can't wait to get it over with!

Anyway....I am still getting balance transfer check offers from cc companies I have accounts with, but no balance.

My attorney said he doesn't listen credit card accounts on the schedule, if there is no balance. He said usually they close your account as soon as they get notice you've filed.

But how would they get notice if not listed on my schedule? Only if they run my credit, right?

Not planning on using the checks, they go straight into the shredder. I just wondered if those accounts are still open.

[AngelinaCatHub]

It really does not matter. You don't have credit in these and the word gets around. Best to trust who you paid for advice. You'll be fine. 'Hub

[anafan]

I'm pretty calm about it actually. The trustee hasn't asked for any missing documents. I know my numbers work. There isn't anything else to do except show up. My attorney does nothing but bankruptcies all day and he says he wishes all his cases were as easy as mine.

We did a run through on what the trustee is going to ask, he's cool with the trustee I drew. He said answer the questions for him just like our run through and it will be over before you know it.

Whatever is done, is done. I'm ready to get on with my life. Minus one jerk and a ton of debt on my shoulders!

Its going to be such a relief to get this over and done!

[ValleYum]

Yay, anafan, Monday will be here before you know it.

FYI, I had a store card, issued by WFNNB, that had a zero balance when we filed that actually made it through the BK. That was the only card that did and we had several with zero balances - most companies and banks have computer programs that run checks of the names/ssn of BK filers against their customer database - so trust me, they all find out! LOL I made a $25 dollar online purchase after our BK closed in March 2011 to see if it would allow it (it did and I paid it off) and did the same thing in December. Why did I charge on it? Since it had indeed stayed open, my thought was to make sure it didn't get closed for lack of use since the age of that account helps my credit rating.

Good luck Monday! Please make sure to come back and let us know how it went for you!!

[movinonnow]

Good luck at the 341 Anafan. The trustee can make all the difference. I was sweating it out, hoping I wouldn't get a certain trustee. I got the "good" one and was discharged without any problems. Whew.....

[btbeme]

My attorney said he doesn't listen credit card accounts on the schedule, if there is no balance.

I don't understand why an attorney would do this. My read of the statutes says to list "all creditors." I do not see an exception for zero-balance accounts. In fact, I have seen more 341 hearings than I can count where a Trustee reamed a petitioner for NOT listing creditors who are clearly listed on their credit reports. I have seen a Trustee get pretty animated with an attorney who wanted to pull the old "I've filed thousands of petitions..." argument. Every 341 I have attended has had a Trustee of the court swear in people who then lied when they said they had listed all creditors. I don't understand it.

Hey, I'd be tempted to not list a zero balance account - why bother, right? Except it was pointed out to me that the law says otherwise. Federal law, that is.

Maybe the Trustees elsewhere are lenient, but I see no reason why an attorney who is getting paid would fail to list any creditor for any reason.

What is the harm in listing them? Des? Anyone?

[ValleYum]

A creditor according to Merriam-Webster is "one to whom a debt is owed; especially : a person to whom money or goods are due."

Therefore according to the strictest sense of the word, if you no longer owe them money (have a zero balance), they are no longer your creditor.

With the account I mentioned above, my attorney did not list them either - even though I gave him all the information in order to do so.

And straight from the NOLO Book, How to File for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy:

Schedule F—Creditors Holding Unsecured Nonpriority Claims:
In this schedule, list all possible creditors you haven’t listed in Schedules D or E. You should include debts that are or may be nondischargeable, such as a student loan. Even if you believe that you don’t owe the debt or you owe only a small amount and intend to pay it off, you must include it here. It’s essential that you list every creditor to whom you owe, or possibly owe, money. The only way you can legitimately leave off a creditor is if your balance owed is $0.

[btbeme]

Therefore according to the strictest sense of the word, if you no longer owe them money (have a zero balance), they are no longer your creditor.How to File for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy:

Like I said, I have seen a well-regarded attorney say pretty much that to a Trustee, only to find himself (and his clients) at the wrong end of the Trustee's wrath. And, possibly worse for all the others to appear that day, it was only the second case of the day (with 72 more to go on the calendar). Ugh.

Just an opinion, but I would ask why anyone would want to try to split hairs with a BK Trustee? What is the advantage to NOT listing a creditor - ANY creditor? I can't think of one.

Hey, to each their own...all I can say is I have seen enough people squirm to convince me that I'd never try to cast any shadow of doubt.

[LadyInTheRed]

Creditor is defined in BK Code Section 101:

(10) The term “creditor” means—
(A) entity that has a claim against the debtor that arose at the time of or before the order for relief concerning the debtor;
(B) entity that has a claim against the estate of a kind specified in section 348 (d), 502 (f), 502 (g), 502 (h) or 502 (i) of this title; or
(C) entity that has a community claim.

If there is no balance, there is no claim and the bank is not a "creditor" who must be listed. It is possible the bank needs to be listed on the Statement of Financial Affairs if you made recent payments. Otherwise, I can't imagine why a trustee would care that a non-creditor is not listed.

Credit card companies where you don't have a balance probably found out about your filing because they subscribe to services that inform them of all bankruptcy filings and they compare new filings to their list of account holders. If they don't subscribe, they find out whenever they do their routine checks of your credit report.

[Flamingo]

I don't understand why an attorney would do this. My read of the statutes says to list "all creditors." I do not see an exception for zero-balance accounts. In fact, I have seen more 341 hearings than I can count where a Trustee reamed a petitioner for NOT listing creditors who are clearly listed on their credit reports. I have seen a Trustee get pretty animated with an attorney who wanted to pull the old "I've filed thousands of petitions..." argument. Every 341 I have attended has had a Trustee of the court swear in people who then lied when they said they had listed all creditors. I don't understand it.

Hey, I'd be tempted to not list a zero balance account - why bother, right? Except it was pointed out to me that the law says otherwise. Federal law, that is.

Maybe the Trustees elsewhere are lenient, but I see no reason why an attorney who is getting paid would fail to list any creditor for any reason.

What is the harm in listing them? Des? Anyone?

When we retained our attorney and were filling out our paperwork (in 2/02, filed 4/02), we were told to list ALL open accounts, whether zero balance or owing a balance, on our paperwork. We had two zero balance accounts. Both survived the filing; one remained open but the company went out of business a few years back and we closed out the account prior to that as we didn't use it (car parts related card); the second card was a national clothing chain which stayed open until the fall of 2008 (over two years after our discharge), was used during the entire period several times a year, paid off in full each time, and upon going to use the card in the fall of 2008 the purchase would not go through - I was advised to call Customer Service. I did immediately and was advised the account was closed for "BK on my credit report." Note our Chapter 13 was due to come off our reports less than six month later in April of 2009. A zero balance card may survive a BK but there is no guarantee it will stay open even if used and paid off as the creditor can close the account at any time for any reason.

[anafan]

I have had credit for 35 years. I have applied for so many cards that I never used. Id get the card in the mail, see the terms and cut them up. Never even activated the card. Most of them probably closed my account years ago. But there are a couple out there that still send me balance transfer offers, in fact I got one in the mail yesterday from Discover. I used that card one time about 5 years ago and paid off my purchase in 3the months because the minimum was too high.

My attorney said they aren't a creditor if you don't owe them money. Moot point.

So I didn't list them. I'm hoping the guy I hired that went to law school and graduated top of his class knows more than I do.

Hope springs eternal!

[LadyInTheRed]

What is the harm in listing them?

I don't think there is any harm to the case in listing them. But, I had over 10 accounts without balances that I hadn't used for years. It seems like waste of time to add all of those to the petition. I'd prefer my attorney and his paralegal focus their time on more important details. Also, sending the extra notices is a waste of paper and postage.