question

[iupui1299]

My wife and I will be filing chapter 7 real soon. Our lawyer gave us a budget that we have to fill out. My question is......do we have to be able to back up everything on the budget. For example, if we spend 400 in food do I neeed receipts for all of that amount. I know we have to turn in copies of our bank statements and we spend most of our money by debit. Also, does anyone know if this is supposed to be a budget based on what we will start spending since we have stopped paying credit cards? I know we need about 400 in food a month but we have never been able to fully spend that because of credit card debt. Thanks in advance.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

My wife and I will be filing chapter 7 real soon. Our lawyer gave us a budget that we have to fill out. My question is......do we have to be able to back up everything on the budget. For example, if we spend 400 in food do I neeed receipts for all of that amount. I know we have to turn in copies of our bank statements and we spend most of our money by debit. Also, does anyone know if this is supposed to be a budget based on what we will start spending since we have stopped paying credit cards? I know we need about 400 in food a month but we have never been able to fully spend that because of credit card debt. Thanks in advance.

If it's reasonable for your area then you shouldn't need any proof. The means test allows 5% additional food, but you would have to back this up and explain to the trustee why you need it. Your best bet is to setup a PACER account and see some filers in your areas expenses so you have an idea on what your court allows. Just be carefull with Pacer's billing. It's per page and can be expensive. Good luck

[iupui1299]

I guess I am confused on the means test. Is there something out there that tells what is allowed for food and other expenses based on an income range?

[SinkingFast]

You can check the Schedules allowables for some expenses yourself at

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/

The Schedules are under the Means Testing Info section. You're allowed so much for rent, utilities, food, clothing, etc, according to where you live, how much you gross/month, and how many people are in your family.

Don't freak out if you actually spend more for rent/mortgage and utilities than the Schedules allow. That's not uncommon at all. If you want to get a real good idea of what the Court is used to seeing on petitions in your area, you might check out PACER and look at actual petitions filed by attnys where you live.

Don't feel bad that you don't know how much you spend at the grocery. We didn't either until we went total cash and started saving receipts.

You won't need to physically turn in the receipts to the Court of the attny, but if you spend way more on food than the Court is used to seeing in your area, you'd better have a reason. Special diet for a medical condition, buying formula for a baby, that type of thing.

[no_it_all]

<snip>I know we need about 400 in food a month but we have never been able to fully spend that because of credit card debt.

Huh???? Did you have a garden or something?? Raise chickens??

[Minnymouth]

No it all - YOUR SUCH A CARD!!!!

[LostOne0069]

No it all - YOUR SUCH A CARD!!!!

Yes, but I agree with him... $400 a month would be bad enough.... less than that and I also start envisioning chickens in the back yard and vegetables growing in the flower beds.

Of course we have 4 kids so my point of view may be skewed just a bit.

[SinkingFast]

I saw an actual filing on PACER for a couple here, with one child, and they said they spent $375/mo on food.

All of their expenses were real low as well. Not just food. Their income was WAY below the Median and the attny put them in a 4 year Ch 13 plan.

They had arrears and delinquent taxes on their house, were behind on a car too. So the house and car payments, the arrears and the back taxes went into the plan.

The people had to be desperate to keep their home is the only thing I could think.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

I saw an actual filing on PACER for a couple here, with one child, and they said they spent $375/mo on food.

All of their expenses were real low as well. Not just food. Their income was WAY below the Median and the attny put them in a 4 year Ch 13 plan.

They had arrears and delinquent taxes on their house, were behind on a car too. So the house and car payments, the arrears and the back taxes went into the plan.

The people had to be desperate to keep their home is the only thing I could think.

This sounds like one of those plans that does NOT get completed. Those expenses seem too low especially under the median. I guess those poor folks had to do what they had to do. Wish them well.

[LostOne0069]

Yep, sounds like an attorney who is building in some extra income for himself when the debtors come back in for a chapter 7 when the 13 fails.

[Jessika1012]

Anyone have a list of expenditures you have used in filing?

Does someone have a current/recent list of expenditures that you have used in filing or an approx. idea for the catagories for TWO people that you could share with the rest of us? I am curious to see where people are at with small things and large things such as these:

Clothing
Food
Gifts
Car Repairs
House Items
Personal Items
Entertainment
ANYTHING ELSE?


We spend about $400.00/month for two of us on food, and I feel we barely buy anything after going through the produce/meat isles!

Any experiences to hand over to us new people would be great!

[SinkingFast]

As it turns out, our attny is the attny that filed that case.

Their Means Test had the box checked, Presumption of Abuse does not arise. Their income was a little more than half the Median, so I wondered why the Ch 13 payment plan. It was obvious the people were clear cut Ch 7. But they had relatively huge Ch 13 plan payments.

That's when I started poking around in their other Schedules. The people are in arrears on their house. They own 3 old beaters but evidently have a loan on the newest one, a 1997 or 1998 car. And they are in arrears on the car loan too. They also owe back property taxes on their home. Then on J, I was shocked to see very low expenses on everything. They were discharging a bunch of medical debt but they only claimed $50/mo for medical. $375/mo for food. Everything was low. And there were areas on the expense form that had no entries.

When I looked at their Ch 13 plan statement, I saw that their house payment, car payment, the arrears on both the house and car, and their back taxes are included in their plan payments. That explains why the 13 plan payments looked relatively huge. All their regular monthly secured debt is being included in the plan payments.

It's a 4 year, 100% Secured and Priority Debt payment plan. Unsecured Creditors are not getting a penny. And there were a bunch of unsecureds being discharged. Lots of medicals, some CC's, private store debts, personal loans, etc.

The only thing I could figure is the people were desperate to keep their house or maybe they had too much equity that the house would be sold if they went Ch 7.

[anonymuse]

The only thing I could figure is the people were desperate to keep their house or maybe they had too much equity that the house would be sold if they went Ch 7.

Or they had a bad attorney, or were too honest on those forms.