Obtaining discharge details

[zakmeister]

Hey,

I recently received my discharge order (Chptr 7) & have been trying unsuccessfully to get details, i.e., which if any of my debts were NOT discharged. I've consulted various sources, online & off, & when I've gotten an answer it's been some version of "If you've received your discharge order, just assume all your debts are discharged." I don't want to assume anything.

So has anybody out there managed to obtain discharge details & if so, how?

Thanks

[tobee43]

it should be written right on the order...or see this blog it may help i hope, it outlines the basic debts which may or may not be dischargable depending on your personal situation:

http://www.bkforum.com/entry.php?2225-Discharge-vs.-Closed.....Do-they-mean-the-same-thing&bt=2537#comment2537

[HHM]

There are NO details to get. In most districts, the discharge order is a 1 page document.

The bankruptcy CODE outlines what debts are an are not discharged. NO ONE goes through your petition like a check list and checks which ones are and are not discharged.

Safe to say, any credit card you listed in the petition is discharged. If you listed a student loan, it is NOT discharged. But that is all determined by section 523 of the bankruptcy code.

[tobee43]

There are NO details to get. In most districts, the discharge order is a 1 page document.

The bankruptcy CODE outlines what debts are an are not discharged. NO ONE goes through you petition like a check list and checks which ones are and are not discharged.

Safe to say, any credit card you listed in the petition is discharged. If you listed a student loan, it is NOT discharged. But that is all determined by section 523 of the bankruptcy code.

my order came with an explanation of what may not be discharged and what is. odd right? that's why i posted it on a blog, i thought it was interesting.

[HHM]

Some provide an "explanation" of discharge, but again, it is not specific to the case.

But it sounds like what the OP is wanting, someone to tell him/her which debts are discharged in his specific case, doesn't happen. The OP needs to contact the attorney, but the attorney will likely say the same thine.

[justbroke]

Exactly as HHM writes. The order itself is one page and the actual wording is no more than 2 sentences which essentially read that the debtor is deserving of a discharge and one is granted! The following is the text from my discharge order!

It appearing that the debtor is entitled to a discharge,

IT IS ORDERED:

The debtor is granted a discharge under section 727 of title 11, United States Code, (the Bankruptcy Code).

Usually, attached to the order that is mailed through the BNC to the creditors -- and debtor -- is another sheet which explains to the debtor and the creditors just what is discharged. As HHM writes, it in now way lists exactly which scheduled debts were discharged. It only categorizes types of things that are and are not discharged. That instruction sheet also instructs creditors to seek legal advice before attempting to collect.

This is the "instruction" sheet attached

EXPLANATION OF BANKRUPTCY DISCHARGE IN A CHAPTER 7 CASE

This court order grants a discharge to the person named as the debtor. It is not a dismissal of the case and it does not determine how much money, if any, the trustee will pay to creditors.

Collection of Discharged Debts Prohibited

The discharge prohibits any attempt to collect from the debtor a debt that has been discharged. For example, a creditor is not permitted to contact a debtor by mail, phone, or otherwise, to file or continue a lawsuit, to attach wages or other property, or to take any other action to collect a discharged debt from the debtor. [In a case involving community property: There are also special rules that protect certain community property owned by the debtor's spouse, even if that spouse did not file a bankruptcy case.] A creditor who violates this order can be required to pay damages and attorney's fees to the debtor.

However, a creditor may have the right to enforce a valid lien, such as a mortgage or security interest, against the debtor's property after the bankruptcy, if that lien was not avoided or eliminated in the bankruptcy case. Also, a debtor may voluntarily pay any debt that has been discharged.

Debts That are Discharged

The chapter 7 discharge order eliminates a debtor's legal obligation to pay a debt that is discharged. Most, but not all, types of debts are discharged if the debt existed on the date the bankruptcy case was filed. (If this case was begun under a different chapter of the Bankruptcy Code and converted to chapter 7 , the discharge applies to debts owed when the bankruptcy case was converted.)

Debts that are Not Discharged.

Some of the common types of debts which are not discharged in a chapter 7 bankruptcy case are:

a. Debts for most taxes;

b. Debts incurred to pay nondischargeable taxes;

c. Debts that are domestic support obligations;

d. Debts for most student loans;

e. Debts for most fines, penalties, forfeitures, or criminal restitution obligations;

f. Debts for personal injuries or death caused by the debtor's operation of a motor vehicle, vessel, or aircraft while intoxicated;

g. Some debts which were not properly listed by the debtor;

h. Debts that the bankruptcy court specifically has decided or will decide in this bankruptcy case are not discharged;

i. Debts for which the debtor has given up the discharge protections by signing a reaffirmation agreement in compliance with the Bankruptcy Code requirements for reaffirmation of debts; and

j. Debts owed to certain pension, profit sharing, stock bonus, other retirement plans, or to the Thrift Savings Plan for federal employees for certain types of loans from these plans.

This information is only a general summary of the bankruptcy discharge. There are exceptions to these general rules. Because the law is complicated, you may want to consult an attorney to determine the exact effect of the discharge in this case.

[zakmeister]

Obtaining discharge details

I appreciate the responses but unfortunately, they don't answer my question. I'm well aware of which debts can -- and cannot -- be discharged, but at least 3 of the 10 items listed on back of discharge order under "Debts That Are Not Discharged allow judge some discretion in deciding whether or not to discharge: " a) debts for most taxes; g) some debts that were not properly listed by debtor; and h) debts that bankruptcy court has decided are not discharged" & it's those I'm concerned about.

Re taxes, for example, it seems from my reading of bankruptcy code & several detailed guides to filing pro se that the court CAN discharge state & federal income taxes from previous years if they meet certain criteria (e.g., filed x # of years before bankruptcy petition, etc.). I meet all of those criteria but I want to know for sure that court did indeed discharge my back taxes, not wait around for IRS to come after me in case it didn't. As for "g" I'm fairly confident I "properly listed" all my debts, but who knows for sure? And "h" is totally ambiguous.

Maybe I'm worrying needlessly & being too anal but, short of calling all my creditors to see if they got copy of discharge order, I'd like to figure out how to get more details. (Yesterday, I actually called IRS to see if it had received discharge order but was told I'd have to wait til 30 days after discharge date.)

Whether I get the answer I'm looking for (if one exists), it's great to be in touch with others who have gone or are going through what I did. Apart from legal issues, this process made me feel like a huge loser who had ruined her life.

Glad you're out there.

[HHM]

to get the judge to make a determination, you, the debtor, must file a Motion or Adversary Proceeding. There is no mechanism that is part of the "regular" BK process that makes a determination.

Generally, for taxes, the discharge provisions are self executing, meaning, if you meet the guidelines, there is nothing more you need to do, the IRS insolvency unit will have done a review and hopefully updated your account. So, for that issue, your first call is the IRS to see if they have coded your account as discharged in BK. If not, then either get with your attorney as you may need to reopen the case and file a Motion to Determine dischargeability of that debt.

Sounds like you are pro se, e.g. not represented by an attorney.

[justbroke]

I don't have much to add to what HHM wrote. I did file pro se and I intuitively understand the "general" discharge order granted in my case. There is nothing magical. For taxes, the best thing to do is to call the IRS' Insolvency Department and see what they have to say about your file. A Forum member (here on BKForum) just went through this last week and to his/her surprise, the IRS abandoned their claim that the taxes were not discharged and updated their file!

The judge has absolutely no "discretion" as to what is discharged. It is a matter of law as to what is discharged. As HHM points out, you worrying about "debts that bankruptcy court has decidd are not discharged" would have required an actual ruling/hearing in the bankruptcy court. You'd know about this because that would be a separate order.

As for other debts, the law is clear. If you feel that a creditor is violating the permanent discharge injunction then re-open your case and file a complaint (adversary) to determine discahrgeability and/or a motion for sanctions and violation of the permanent discharge injunction.

Creditors will continue to violate the permanent discharge injunction. The discharge instructions clearly read that creditors -- and the debtor -- need to consult an experienced bankruptcy attorney to know just what "should" have been discharged!

All disputes on dischargeability are handled by the bankruptcy court.

It is really quite simple. All debts are discharged. Some are not.

If you're unsure... ask the court by filing a Motion or Complaint to Determine Dischargeability. I did on one item that was not taxes.

[tobee43]

Some provide an "explanation" of discharge, but again, it is not specific to the case.

But it sounds like what the OP is wanting, someone to tell him/her which debts are discharged in his specific case, doesn't happen. The OP needs to contact the attorney, but the attorney will likely say the same thine.

agreed, it's all very general and vague and just a guideline. the information i recieved was not specific to my case at all, it again, was just a general outline, of course it's impossible to know which would be applicable in the case of the OP. OP's atty, should, as you stated advise which debts are discharged and those that may not be covered under the discharge.

[justbroke]

I have never read or heard about any bankruptcy attorney that went item by item and told the debtor which debts were discharged. I guess that would be a nice thing, but I just don't hear too much about that. Generally, they'll say "all debts" or "everything scheduled"... with the usual caveats and exceptions.

[tobee43]

I have never read or heard about any bankruptcy attorney that went item by item and told the debtor which debts were discharged. I guess that would be a nice thing, but I just don't hear too much about that. Generally, they'll say "all debts" or "everything scheduled"... with the usual caveats and exceptions.

i haven't either. actually, don't you think one can tell what's actually discharged by the the schedules on the peitions. really, the secured debt as opposed to unsecured, at least that a good starting point. however, if the OP doesn't understand his/her bk atty may be best able to clarify any questions.