Question about 30 day limit for trustee to challenge exemptions

[filed]

The journey that is a successful ch 7 filing is full of time spent watching the days tick by.

As I have learned, some milestones are essentially meaningless (thinking of the 10 day mark after 341 for USTrustee to file Notice of POA - meaningless b/c they always have the full 60 days to challenge your case on totality of circumstances) and certainly some are quite meaningful.

My question is, how significant is the 30 day mark after the conclusion of the 341, which is the date by which the Trustee must initiate or file a challenge to the exemptions you claim?

Does getting past this date without any challenges have any bearing on whether you are ultimately declared no asset/no distribution?

[justbroke]

The date doesn't have a bearing on whether you are asset or no asset. An asset/no-asset determination could be based on what's in your schedules themselves! You may already have assets that are not completely covered by the exemptions (partially exempt) or completely exposed (totally non-exempt). The challenge of exemptions is usually not a surprise for debtors. At the 341 Meeting, the Trustee will typically tell you that they don't like certain exemptions. It's not a matter that you're waiting for this to happen.

I think people worry too much about the dates when you really should have a good idea of what your case will be when it is filed and certainly by or shortly after the 341 Meeting.

The 10-day mark isn't meaningless to the UST. It's easier for them to get your case dismissed on a presumption of abuse, then for them to go through the "complaint" process (Adversary Proceeding) for a dismissal under the totality of circumstances. (It may differ in some District, but in mine, the presumption of abuse is a mere motion (contested matter) and the dismissal under the totality of circumstances is done via the complaint process.

The fact is, that you can be declared an asset case at any point... even post discharge! The deadline is just for those exemptions that you claim and the Trustee doesn't agree. Again, the Trustee will usually let you know that they are not liking your exemptions at the 341 Meeting.

[filed]

...The challenge of exemptions is usually not a surprise for debtors. At the 341 Meeting, the Trustee will typically tell you that they don't like certain exemptions. It's not a matter that you're waiting for this to happen.

I think people worry too much about the dates when you really should have a good idea of what your case will be when it is filed and certainly by or shortly after the 341 Meeting.

The fact is, that you can be declared an asset case at any point... even post discharge! The deadline is just for those exemptions that you claim and the Trustee doesn't agree. Again, the Trustee will usually let you know that they are not liking your exemptions at the 341 Meeting.

Thanks for the reply. Apparently, my case is quite unusual because the trustee did not let me know anything about my exemptions at the 341, that I am aware of. My schedules certainly indicate that my case is a no asset case, but I have a vehicle that needs repair immediately and I exempted it for $2,000, which is above the $1,500 carmax appraisal I had for it, but, I need to know if the trustee will object to that or not, declare me an asset case or not, so that I can know if I should go ahead and spend the $600 or so to have it repaired.

I don't want to waste $600 on a vehicle that the trustee is going to take away from me to sell right after I repair it. If they are gonna take it, I would rather they take it as is, and I can spend the $600 on arranging some alternative transportation for myself.

Any challenge to my exemptions would be a surprise to me, as would any action that declares my case to be an asset case, since I know what I have and I know what its worth (under the exemptions) although, it seems to me that it matters little what I think or know, it matters only what the trustee decides.

[filed]

The challenge of exemptions is usually not a surprise for debtors. At the 341 Meeting, the Trustee will typically tell you that they don't like certain exemptions. It's not a matter that you're waiting for this to happen.

The 10-day mark isn't meaningless to the UST. It's easier for them to get your case dismissed on a presumption of abuse, then for them to go through the "complaint" process (Adversary Proceeding) for a dismissal under the totality of circumstances. (It may differ in some District, but in mine, the presumption of abuse is a mere motion (contested matter) and the dismissal under the totality of circumstances is done via the complaint process.

Perhaps the fact that the trustee did not specifically tell me they had a problem with any of my exemptions is a positive for my case. I also appreciate knowing that the passing of the 10 day mark without the filing of a notice of POA from the US Trustee, even after they requested documents and questioned me at the 341, is actually a positive as well, indicating less risk that they will ultimately challenge my ch 7 filing as abusive. Once again, I thank you sincerely for sharing your knowledge and experience!

[justbroke]

There are surprises in some cases. In 90-95% of cases, they are no asset cases and stay no asset cases. I can't speculate on what the UST or the (panel) Trustee may be thinking, but they are usually not out to surprise anyone.

[filed]

If I listed my vehicle and fully exempted it on sched C, and 30 days pass without the trustee challenging any exemptions, then, can I safely say that the vehicle is mine to do with what I want, ie...get it repaired or trade it in on a different vehicle?

[justbroke]

Generally, it's okay but it's better to wait until discharge where the Trustee has usually filed a no-asset report and asked to be excused from the case. If you're just looking to make repairs to keep it safe and operating -- especially if you're using it -- then you should do so. If they are cosmetic, you could wait.

[filed]

Generally, it's okay but it's better to wait until discharge where the Trustee has usually filed a no-asset report and asked to be excused from the case. If you're just looking to make repairs to keep it safe and operating -- especially if you're using it -- then you should do so. If they are cosmetic, you could wait.

Thanks, justbroke. The repairs are just to keep it operating, definitely NOT cosmetic. What I have been worried about is that its been about 30 days and the panel trustee has made no determination/filing with regard to asset/no asset in my case. My attorney says they are just waiting for the USTrustee to make sure nothing "pops up" (whatever that means!) during their closer look at my over median - high unsecured debt case.

I just do not want to have to wait the full 60 days, and then find out the trustee wants my vehicle and I effectively wasted the $600 fixing it. I handed to the US Trustee all of the additional info/documentation they requested at my 341 and answered questions from both Trustees. They concluded my 341, and the initial 10 days passed without any Notice of POA from the US Trustee.

If someone has say $500- $700 in value of "assets" that are over exemptions amounts, is that an amount that would typically justify the Panel Trustee opening an asset case and administering?

[justbroke]

Your questions just depends on the Trustee. Some will make it an asset case for just $500 of non-exempt assets... so long as it's pretty liquid. Meaning, Tax Refunds are easy money since they are already liquid. Having to sell some property and hope to get $500 could be more difficult. it just depends on the Trustee.

[filed]

Generally, it's okay but it's better to wait until discharge where the Trustee has usually filed a no-asset report and asked to be excused from the case.

Justbroke, I filed in early November as a no asset. Today on PACER I got the discharge, but, I still have no idea if I am in fact "no asset" or if the Panel Trustee is going to open up an asset case. How unusual is it that I do not know by now, with my discharge in hand?

[justbroke]

If you have PACER access, just check PACER. If there is a report of no distribution and/or your case is marked "Asset: NO" at the top of the screen, then you are a no asset case. Asset determination is done prior to discharge (unless there were "late-discovered" assets).

(Noting that asset determination really has nothing to do with discharge. However, you usually know that you're an asset case prior to discharge.)

[filed]

If you have PACER access, just check PACER. If there is a report of no distribution and/or your case is marked "Asset: NO" at the top of the screen, then you are a no asset case. Asset determination is done prior to discharge (unless there were "late-discovered" assets).

(Noting that asset determination really has nothing to do with discharge. However, you usually know that you're an asset case prior to discharge.)

Justbroke, I have PACER and there has not been a report of no asset filed. Where would the case be marked "Asset:NO" at the top, ie, at the top of what section?

[justbroke]

From what you wrote, your case is marked as a NO ASSET case. It is not likely that the Trustee will change it to an asset case now. You may want to check PACER today as it may actually CLOSE today as well!

[filed]

From what you wrote, your case is marked as a NO ASSET case. It is not likely that the Trustee will change it to an asset case now. You may want to check PACER today as it may actually CLOSE today as well!

Thank you, justbroke, but, my case has been marked as "NO ASSET" since the day we filed. I am glad to hear that it is not likely they will change it now. I will check PACER at the end of the day to see if anything else gets filed, ie, the Report of No Asset/No Distribution. They cannot close the case until they file a Report of No Asset/No Distribution, can they?

[justbroke]

Usually, they won't close the case without the report. However, some Districts (in Florida) do "automatic" closing once the discharge is issued. Hang in there!