Need advice Please

[dannyangel]

Hi all

My wife and I are having some issues with our Bankruptcy Atty and we don't know what to do......uncharted waters here.

We hired an attorney and filed chapter 7 at the end of August this year. We turned in all our paperwork and thought everything was ok. I noticed on our petition concerning our income that all that was listed was our social security income. We also had self employment income during the 6 months prior to filing. We turned over all income we had during that time, but the self employment was not included in our petition by the attorney. Our 341 was scheduled for October, but was rescheduled for this month. Our attorney has promised several times to call us to discuss the situation with the self employment income but has not. I thought full disclosure of all income was necessary. I told the Atty that I wanted to be sure on this because I was not going to get in trouble. Now our rescheduled 341 is only a little over a week away and we still have gotten no answers from this lawyer. We have already paid in full and can't afford to start from scratch with another lawyer. We don't know what to do.

[BobMango]

I had a similar problem with my attorney not getting things updated. I went to my 341 anyway and when the trustee asked if everything on my petition was correct I said no. He asked why not and I told him because my attorney did not respond to my repeated requests to make the updates. (My attorney did not show, but one of his junior associates was there). The junior associate was looking very uncomfortable. At any rate I explained what the corrections were (some additional assets, reaffirmation on auto loan, etc). He told us to get the revisions submitted asap while he was staring down the junior associate.

You need to be completely honest and complete in your filing. Do you think the additional income will cause you problems in terms of passing the means test? If you think you would pass the means test either way I'd go and explain to the trustee that you need to make amendments but your attorney has not been responsive to your case. I think the worst case scenario is a continuance unless there are other real problems with your petition.

As I understand your situation, I'd plan on going and just making sure the trustee has all the information your attorney could not be bothered to deal with.

[dannyangel]

I had a similar problem with my attorney not getting things updated. I went to my 341 anyway and when the trustee asked if everything on my petition was correct I said no. He asked why not and I told him because my attorney did not respond to my repeated requests to make the updates. (My attorney did not show, but one of his junior associates was there). The junior associate was looking very uncomfortable. At any rate I explained what the corrections were (some additional assets, reaffirmation on auto loan, etc). He told us to get the revisions submitted asap while he was staring down the junior associate.

You need to be completely honest and complete in your filing. Do you think the additional income will cause you problems in terms of passing the means test? If you think you would pass the means test either way I'd go and explain to the trustee that you need to make amendments but your attorney has not been responsive to your case. I think the worst case scenario is a continuance unless there are other real problems with your petition.

As I understand your situation, I'd plan on going and just making sure the trustee has all the information your attorney could not be bothered to deal with.

Thats probably what I need to do. I provided all of the information about the self employment income to the lawyer, but it somehow did not end up on the petition. Also at the time we filed.....my wife owed 2 payments on her car. We contacted our attorney to inform them the vehicle was paid off and to see if anything needed to be amended because of it. The secretary told us that something would need to be filed.....but nothing has to this point. This is the only vehicle we have and we don't want to take any chances on losing it.

[BobMango]

Well the car presents a little different twist. If the combination of the car payment ending and the addition of the self-employment income could push you into a Chapter 13 I'd probably try to get that resolved with your attorney before the 341.

The other issue is whether you can exempt the full value of the car. Since you no longer have a lien against it that makes it a little more attractive to the trustee. You should review your exemptions and see how your car equity was handled to begin with.

If you are unsuccessful getting in touch with your attorney before your 341, I'd probably still go. Most attorneys meet briefly with their clients just before the 341 and you may be able to have a quick word about it then and let them advise you on what actions might need to be taken.

[jst4f]

I suggest one last call to your attorney to tell them what you must do to be honest and protect yourself at the 341 if the amendments are not completed and explained to you prior to the meeting. If still no reponse then follow through as outline in earlier posts. I would rather be aggressive with the lawyer in private than in front of the trustee. Another thought is to just show up at the attorney's office instead of calling. If s/he not there leave your ultimatum in person to whoever in the office will listen.

[ValleYum]

The KY exemption for a car is only $2500. There is a wild card of $1000 in KY.

I *hope* the OP's attorney chose the Federal BK exemptions as they are available in Kentucky and would offer much larger exemptions for their assets particularly if there is no or little equity in a homestead to protect.

The Federal exemption for a car is $3450. There is a wild card of $1150 and you can use $10825 of unused homestead exemption to cover any property. If you are filing as a married couple you can double all of the exemption amounts (except for the car because that exemption is per vehicle, IIRC).

As usual, YMMV and make sure you check with your attorney!!

I hope the OP gets in touch with their attorney ASAP. That is such poor practice on the attorney's part to not return calls or answer questions.

[tobee43]

I had a similar problem with my attorney not getting things updated. I went to my 341 anyway and when the trustee asked if everything on my petition was correct I said no. He asked why not and I told him because my attorney did not respond to my repeated requests to make the updates. (My attorney did not show, but one of his junior associates was there). The junior associate was looking very uncomfortable. At any rate I explained what the corrections were (some additional assets, reaffirmation on auto loan, etc). He told us to get the revisions submitted asap while he was staring down the junior associate.

You need to be completely honest and complete in your filing. Do you think the additional income will cause you problems in terms of passing the means test? If you think you would pass the means test either way I'd go and explain to the trustee that you need to make amendments but your attorney has not been responsive to your case. I think the worst case scenario is a continuance unless there are other real problems with your petition.

As I understand your situation, I'd plan on going and just making sure the trustee has all the information your attorney could not be bothered to deal with.

bob, this is such excellent advise, if it comes down to the wire.

it's so important to review one's petition prior to signing it. shoot we had to have changes done 5 FIVE times before we signed. many of these people doing the actual input on the petitions (they say they are paralegals) at least that's what we were told and i found out the little girl working on ours was 18 year just out of high school person. not that i'm putting down the person, just the fact she was presented to us as the firms paralegal and most certainly wasn't. the mistakes were terrible such as using an address that was 30 years old! telling her over and over again NO and where did you get that anyway! finally we had to have a face to face with the atty to straighten out the mess. but, as i said after reviewing the document 5 times we finally signed.

my point here, once again, is review everything before signing it. keep it a few days so you can go back and fro with a new set of eyes. these firms do this everyday. we don't. and it's our lives.

once again bob, that really is a great way to handle the situation, must have been a bit scary

[dannyangel]

bob, this is such excellent advise, if it comes down to the wire.

it's so important to review one's petition prior to signing it. shoot we had to have changes done 5 FIVE times before we signed. many of these people doing the actual input on the petitions (they say they are paralegals) at least that's what we were told and i found out the little girl working on ours was 18 year just out of high school person. not that i'm putting down the person, just the fact she was presented to us as the firms paralegal and most certainly wasn't. the mistakes were terrible such as using an address that was 30 years old! telling her over and over again NO and where did you get that anyway! finally we had to have a face to face with the atty to straighten out the mess. but, as i said after reviewing the document 5 times we finally signed.

my point here, once again, is review everything before signing it. keep it a few days so you can go back and fro with a new set of eyes. these firms do this everyday. we don't. and it's our lives.

once again bob, that really is a great way to handle the situation, must have been a bit scary

Thanks for the replies everyone.

We actually did read over the petition before we signed it. I brought the issue of the self employment income not being on there to their attention at that time. I was told that it wasn't necessary to put it on there because it was not considered "steady income". Heck, I didn't know the difference, I'm not a lawyer. It was only after I started reading this board that I realized how important full disclosure is.

[dannyangel]

341 Done....finally! It took me until last friday to finally speak to my attorney. To use a term we use here in Ky.....I told her how the cow ate the cabbage. I let her know I wasn't very happy. Everything went ok at the 341.

My advise to anyone searching for an attorney. Cheap doesn't mean best. Do your homework and be selective. If you can, try to find an attorney that "specializes" in bankruptcy. If you need an eye exam, you wouldn't go to a dentist. Most of all, when talking to an attorney....make sure they will be available to you throughout the process. It will be a whole lot less stressful. Trust me.

[lotsahats]

My advise to anyone searching for an attorney. Cheap doesn't mean best. Do your homework and be selective. If you can, try to find an attorney that "specializes" in bankruptcy. If you need an eye exam, you wouldn't go to a dentist. Most of all, when talking to an attorney....make sure they will be available to you throughout the process. It will be a whole lot less stressful. Trust me.

Duly noted.

[tobee43]

341 Done....finally! It took me until last friday to finally speak to my attorney. To use a term we use here in Ky.....I told her how the cow ate the cabbage. I let her know I wasn't very happy. Everything went ok at the 341.

My advise to anyone searching for an attorney. Cheap doesn't mean best. Do your homework and be selective. If you can, try to find an attorney that "specializes" in bankruptcy. If you need an eye exam, you wouldn't go to a dentist. Most of all, when talking to an attorney....make sure they will be available to you throughout the process. It will be a whole lot less stressful. Trust me.

are you saying you didn't go to a bk atty.

it's so bad out there! so many atty's are switching around since many civil attys are starving and need work and where's the work! bk's

glad it went well for you.

[dannyangel]

are you saying you didn't go to a bk atty.

it's so bad out there! so many atty's are switching around since many civil attys are starving and need work and where's the work! bk's

glad it went well for you.

I did go to a bk atty. But this atty also handles auto accidents, family law, social security and heaven knows what else. I'm not saying you can't get a good bk atty that handles other areas of law. They are out there. I'm saying based on my experience, having it all to do over again, I would dig a little deeper and start looking for bk only attys. I can put on a long white hat, apron and turn on an oven, but it doesn't make me a chef. Just do your homework, ask some questions and shop around.

[tobee43]

I did go to a bk atty. But this atty also handles auto accidents, family law, social security and heaven knows what else. I'm not saying you can't get a good bk atty that handles other areas of law. They are out there. I'm saying based on my experience, having it all to do over again, I would dig a little deeper and start looking for bk only attys. I can put on a long white hat, apron and turn on an oven, but it doesn't make me a chef. Just do your homework, ask some questions and shop around.

i hear you! good advise. personally we interviewed at least 5 before finding the right fit. it turned out well for us, but i have seen many have struggles with the attys they hire.

[ValleYum]

i hear you! good advise. personally we interviewed at least 5 before finding the right fit. it turned out well for us, but i have seen many have struggles with the attys they hire.

You know after reading here for over a year, I think the 2nd biggest cause of stress to BK filers (1st being that you are filing BK at all!!) is an unresponsive attorney and/or an attorney without a great deal of knowledge about BK.

The choice of attorney is so crucial.

[basketsbears]

Thank you on the advice on finding an attorney. We have it narrowed down to 2 attorneys, and think we will go with a fairly young attorney who spent 1 1/2 hours with me at the free consultation. She states that she handles everything herself, and has been very responsive to our emails, etc. Her rates are about par, although if we go with a 13, probably a little higher ($1,500 for Ch 7, $3500 for ch 13). I feel her "holding our hands" through this will help a lot no matter which one we finally end up in.

Thanks for the post, it really helped.