Couple of questions about valuation and credit card charges

[CCM620]

First I was wondering if anyone has experience with firearms in a Ch. 7. I have accumalated quite a collection through the years and if I was to file would I value the collection as to retail cost of what the guns are worth or what I think I could sell the collection it it was auctioned. Also, in a CH. 7 does the trustee get copies of your past credit card statements and want to know the status of the merchandise you bought in years past, do you still have the items etc. How much scrutiny does the trustee show to past purchases when you are filing a bk over credit card debt or do they not even bother.

[LadyInTheRed]

Do not use retail value for your guns. What you would get at an auction or garage sale would be better. Or, find out what a local gun dealer would pay you for them. Your attorney can provide guidance on how to value them.

Trustees do not typically ask for copies of credit card statements. I suppose they might if they suspect you are hiding assets. It's possible a creditor could ask about the property you purchased, especially if the purchase was made with a store credit card and the terms of the card provide that whatever you buy is security for the debt. Those creditors may try to get you to return the property, but they rarely actually take action to collect it. As long as you don't try to hide any assets, you have nothing to worry about.

[tobee43]

we had firearms in our bk and listed them as current values at the time with a reputable dealer. however, one of us requires a firearms while working so it was viewed upon in a bit of a different light.

i would likely think your firearms collection would be based on maybe the kelly's blue blue of firearms...or some use the blue book of gun values. it will depend on your trustee and what your atty may advise you as to what or how to evaluate your collection. if it is that high in value and it's more than your exemptions allow, the trustee may be interested in your collection.

when filing, usually one is asked for 6 months of bank statements,current pay stubs, tax returns (we had to provide 3 years, while most people it is 2). one would provide any docket numbers for any law suits, etc. we didn't have to submit credit card statements at all. the only time you may ask to produce any credit card statement is if you charged 90 days prior to your filing date. in which case, you may have to pay that debt.

other than that, or something unusual, the trustees most times don't ask for that type of documentation. usually one just lists the amounts owed to the credit card companies, not statements.

[tobee43]

hahah...lady!!! i didn't see you there

[CCM620]

It seems like a person declaring their assets in a bankruptcy is strictly on the honor system. I would imagine a majority of filers do not list all their assets. If you had $20,000 in cash or a coin collection who would disclose that, as it would be so easy to just dig into the ground. Not saying I would, just that I imagine most people do. I just have a hard time seeing most people do listing everything even if they say they do. Dont trustees know this?

[tobee43]

It seems like a person declaring their assets in a bankruptcy is strictly on the honor system. I would imagine a majority of filers do not list all their assets. If you had $20,000 in cash or a coin collection who would disclose that, as it would be so easy to just dig into the ground. Not saying I would, just that I imagine most people do. I just have a hard time seeing most people do listing everything even if they say they do. Dont trustees know this?

one would think. and, i agree, one must be honest as can be. it is actually an "honor" system. i also have a difficult time thinking people list every single asset, even if it's not done purposely to be deceitful.

whether trustee's know this or not, it will depend on how hard they push into your records if they feel someone is hiding something from them.

[HHM]

It seems like a person declaring their assets in a bankruptcy is strictly on the honor system. I would imagine a majority of filers do not list all their assets. If you had $20,000 in cash or a coin collection who would disclose that, as it would be so easy to just dig into the ground. Not saying I would, just that I imagine most people do. I just have a hard time seeing most people do listing everything even if they say they do. Dont trustees know this?

And those people are denied discharged and prosecuted for bankruptcy fraud.

The thing is, in the abstract, someone rarely has just "One" easy to hide, no paper trail item. Generally, the petition will have other problems which creates more scrutiny. Also, most debtors have a hard time lying at the 341 meeting. You would be surprised how often an undisclosed item is disclosed at the 341 meeting. But, is it possible to hide assets, yes; is it worth the risk, probably not.

But to answer the OP's questions.
1. Value items like firearms at pawn shop value, if you have more than 2 firearms, you will need to go to the trouble to get them valued.
2. Trustees tend not to review the CC statements, as was previously mentioned, each creditor may take issue depending on the circumstances.

[chrisdfw]

It seems like a person declaring their assets in a bankruptcy is strictly on the honor system. I would imagine a majority of filers do not list all their assets. If you had $20,000 in cash or a coin collection who would disclose that, as it would be so easy to just dig into the ground. Not saying I would, just that I imagine most people do. I just have a hard time seeing most people do listing everything even if they say they do. Dont trustees know this?

I listed everything I could possibly think of... while being vague. Like dining room furniture and decorations... $400, that pretty much covers everything in the dining room. Same with each room. In the garage I listed tools and parts... and an amount. Essentially all the things we think are so great aren't monetarily worth much of anything.