Keeping Receipts? Have you been asked to show them?

[BananaCabana]

Our filing is coming up fast now I am getting nervous about certain things. Since I use Quicken as our financial software I tend to throw away my Wal-mart, Target, Sam's Club, fuel, etc. receipts away as soon as I verify they have cleared our bank account. I keep reading how people have saved all of their receipts.

How often has anyone ever been asked to produce them?

I have had shopping trips that are for $20 at Wal-mart to over $350. I shop at Wal-mart for almost everything so the $ amounts vary widely. From buying the few food items/necessities needed that were forgotten to the weekly-bi-weekly grocery trip that can be a large amount. (I have a large family)

Now I am worried that the trustee will ask for them and I will not be able to produce them.

Also, I read that in someone's 341 a lady was asked why she was filing for BK when she had $5000 in her savings account. We have $1500 in a savings account that I had planned to use for our attorney if we decided to change to a Ch. 13. We also have about $10k in our checking account due to selling some of our property about two months ago that we have not spent since I had planned to buy a beater type van to get rid of our car payment but have not found anything that was acceptable. I wanted to get rid of the car payment since I just lost my job again and we can survive on my DH income alone if we don't have that blasted car payment. Otherwise we are coming in short every month. Now we are going to be forced to file and do not have time for any more pre-bk planning.

Any suggestions, advice or opinions? I will wait to see what our attorney says when I turn in our paperwork in the next couple of weeks. But I thought I would touch base here first to ease my worries (hopefully) in the mean time.

[JessMN]

I didn't save any and wasn't asked for any.

[donnao]

Same here

[IamOld]

same here (so far :-) but i started saving receipts about a month before 341 for anything not on debit card or paid by check. Spouse thinks I'm stupid :-)

[HHM]

Honestly, it is very rare that a person must show a receipt.

[delphinus317]

I just filed. I saved receipts for larger cash purchases over $100 (I recently sold a truck), so I have proof of where almost all of that money went. If they question whether or not I have a stash of cash from that sale, I can prove that I spent it (on necessities). Otherwise, if it's $20 here or $40 there... I typically don't keep those receipts.

[nceguyfromne]

I was asked for nothing. My attorney said we could go about our normal business and that's exactly what we did. We even took a couple weekend trips during the summer. Nothing expensive or outlandish, but not necessary either. Had they asked for the information, it would have been right on our bank statements.

Obviously now would not be the time to open new credit cards or buy a brand new Mercedes, but otherwise there shouldn't be any need to alter your normal routine.

[BananaCabana]

Thank you! I had a moment of freaking out. Sometimes they pass quickly and other times they hang on. I do have some things I should purchase before I file. Car seat, new computer printer........new Mercedes ;). I really am wondering what to do about the main vehicle we own though. We are in Florida and everytime I have talked to a dealer about trading in our van we have been laughed at when I mention the kbb or nada value. They claim to use some sort of Black Book for their valuations according to a dealer here in SWFL. Kbb,nada claim the vehicle is worth about $12,500 trade. For the BK purposes, those websites are stating it should be listed as $15,500. Are they SERIOUS? I can't get anyone to offer me more than $8,500 for the trade if I am lucky! I don't want to have to try to exempt the $7-$8k equity that the kbb,nada values state we have. Especially since I already know there isn't a bat's chance in heck that we could ever get that much for it if we tried to sell it on our own. But if I surrender it in the BK I am afraid I won't have enough cash left to purchase a vehicle to get the kids chauffered around (have a lot of them remember) and to get back and forth to work reliably IF I find a job.

I also wonder about "under-valuing" (per kbb/nada standards) the car and the trustee getting upset that perhaps we are trying to pull on over on him/her. The only option I have come up with is to take pictures of the vehicle, inside and out, to show why I am valuing it low along with a possible estimate of the car's worth. Then again, I read that trustees won't take a carmax quote or quotes like it. And one other worry/possiblitly.....do I just bite the bullet and buy another vehicle now ($3000 or so) and surrender the van at the BK? How will that affect my trying to finance a car in the future? And would the trustee see that as manipulating and fraudulent? I think I will shoot an e-mail to my paraleagal this afternoon and ask some of these questions.

Thanks for allowing me to prattle on. I feel better already.

[keepsmiling]

Many here have reported that Carmax appraisal was ok with tt as it's the most realistic. What does your atty say?

[nceguyfromne]

I also wonder about "under-valuing" (per kbb/nada standards) the car and the trustee getting upset that perhaps we are trying to pull on over on him/her. The only option I have come up with is to take pictures of the vehicle, inside and out, to show why I am valuing it low along with a possible estimate of the car's worth. Then again, I read that trustees won't take a carmax quote or quotes like it. And one other worry/possiblitly.....do I just bite the bullet and buy another vehicle now ($3000 or so) and surrender the van at the BK?

Trustee practices vary a bit by district. Your attorney will know what flies with trustees in your particular jurisdiction for vehicle valuations. I don't see why a Carmax offer should be an issue. It's a bonafide purchase offer.
When I met with my attorney, his question to me was simple. If I stuck my stuff in the front yard with "for sale" signs on it, how much would someone pay? The only seller in the world that's going to net anywhere close to "full market value" on a used vehicle is a dealer, and even that's a stretch most of the time. Your number should be substantially lower than KBB. If necessary, have pictures of your bald tires, scratched windshield, disintegrating brake rotors and broken moon roof handy to back up your number. The same is true with all your other stuff. The furniture store may be able to sell an $800 "floor model" couch for $600 but the one sitting in your living room, in the same exact condition, is probably worth $100 on Craigslist.

[BananaCabana]

Many here have reported that Carmax appraisal was ok with tt as it's the most realistic. What does your atty say?

The attorney said to use Nada retail value. I will have to ask her about a Carmax appraisal or a dealership's appraisal and everything else that I have questions about. I will post back when I get some answers.

[LadyInTheRed]

BananaCabana, if you have $11,500 in cash and equity in one or more vehicles, you need to be careful about your exemptions. From other posts, it looks like you don't need a homestead exemption, so you will have the $4,000 to use for other assets, but I don't know if a married couple can double that. Assuming you can double it, in Florida you have $10,000 in exemptions you can use to exempt all of your personal property ($1,000 exemption doubled for married couple, plus doubled unused $4,000 homestead exemption). The Florida automobile exemption is $1,000 which you may able to double (again, I don't know). I hope somebody from Florida will corrrect me if I have any of this wrong.

If you think exemptions are going to be a problem, ask your attorney about how you can safely spend some of that cash.

Replacing your car to get rid of your car payment may not be your best move. You can't use the vehicle ownership expense on the means test unless you have a car payment. If you are close to not qualifying for a Chap 7, the loss of that expense could put you into a Chap 13.

A couple of more things to talk to your attorney about.

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

In a Chapter 13 it is far more common to have to offer proof of expenses ... because in Ch 13 the focus is on income/expenses and your disposable income.

In a Chapter 7, the Trustee is looking for non-exempt assets, and there just is not the worry about income/expenses ... except for the United States Trustee if it looks like your case is abusive. There may be questioning about your expenses if something looks out of wack ... but I can't think of a Chapter 7 Trustee that asked for proof of expenses ... only the United States Trustee in abuse cases.

[jst4f]

Have no experience with trustee asking for receipts but I kept the bigger ones >$250 just in case. It is also good practice for going all cash once in BK. Your original post said you had $10K in cash and yet you don't believe you have time to plan your BK. You have time so use it wisely. Talk to your lawyer and do a lot searches and reading on this website. You'll do great with your BK. Best decision we made. Good luck

[BananaCabana]

Just returned from meeting with the paralegal and turning our paperwork in. She basically said that we need to get rid of our cash. She has no problem with us getting rid of the car that has a loan attached and about $7-8k of equity to get a car of lessor value and no payment with some of that cash. So that will be our next step. She also said that in total FL exemptions should be $12,000, not the $10,000 I had thought. So my next challange will be to find a car I can live with that runs well but isn't really worth much. We also have been doing a payment plan on some medical bills and wanted to continue but she told us to stop paying on that too. Preferential treatment. That kind of sucks as I had no problem paying it and wanted to get it paid off. I know I can always pay it back after the BK but I feel like a big heel not paying it now. We are still planning to file in December which doesn't give us much time.

She also reinstated that the trustees in our area are very strict with following the KBB or NADA values even though they are aware that they are super-inflated compared to the value you can really get for a vehicle.