Non-Filling Husband is IRRATE!

[justbeach03]

Aside from paystubs...what else can i look forward to them asking me about for non-filing husband? Will they ask for bank statements or other asset documents (IRA etc). Don't want to get caught off guard, if I have to get him deeper involved.

My Dear Sweet Husband is beside himself with my non-consumer BK paperwork. We have no joint accounts, credit cards or assets- due to my poor credit. House and cars are all in his name. Originally, I thought the BK was strictly my income, expenses & assests...but then found out his info is needed too. He's pissed that his income and assets have to be listed for the attorney and all too see. He has been very supportive, but addimant that he wants nothing to do with MY previous business failure or this BK- and that it better not affect him! I feel horrible for even being in this position, much less stress for us.

[IamOld]

justbeach - I'm sorry to hear that - really sorry - because even if one of a married couple files, they do need his paystubs/income - in my district they don't seem to need the non-filer's bank statements...unless you had your $$ go to his acct.

But I'd have them anyway - just in case... Now, as other wiser heads here will tell you, you'll need to have his expenses, and what will be OFFSET ("deduction") are things that are for his support only - like HIS 401k deds (in my district) are a deduction, etc. A good BK lawyer will tell you what of his EXPENSES you can use and/or can be a deduction.

So I hate to say it, but he'll have to be a little...involved...I mean for you to show up at the bk atty without him so he can go over his side of the "equation" would not be a good idea...

BUT - and this is just me speaking here...support from the significant other is very necessary - BK can be stressful, and...well...he ought not just be letting you handle this on your own...but like I said...that's just how I see things :-)

[justbroke]

Involved, certainly. Affected by, highly unlikely. Well, he's affected by needing to provide the information. A non-filing spouse will always need to be accounted for in the income determination. Legally, you are one "entity" known as the married couple. As pointed out, all income counts. Then a determination is made based on the non-filing spouses marital deductions.

Since this is a non-consumer case, it really doesn't matter, but it is absolutely required on certain forms. While you don't complete the Means Test, you do fill out the first part and check the box indicating it is a non-consumer filing... then sign the form in section 8 (VIII). You do need to complete Schedule I & J which do require your spouses income, whether filing or not. I don't know the specific of how practitioners list the marital allowances on these schedules.

A BK can be very stressful and, sadly, some actually lead to separation or worse, divorce. Don't let this happen! Have your attorney sit down with both you and your husband to explain exactly the process and what he -- the husband -- can expect!

[justbeach03]

He really has been supportive- especially with the failing business and him supporting my son (ex hasn't paid direct child suport in years,- but working on that), just really pissed that he's now being dragged into it and doesn't want any reprocussions on credit, retirement or taxes or ANYTHING. Hopefully, things would never get "THAT" bad, just trying to prepare him.

[IamOld]

Good justbeach - because being mad at you, is not good - if anything, he needs to be mad at a very unjust economic system which we've developed.

ALL MY BEST WISHES TO YOU.

(May I say one more thing and PLEASE tell me if this isn't any of my business...if he married you, your son, in my very humble opinion, comes with the "deal" - and that is now his responsibility too.)

[lotsahats]

I'm sort of in the same boat, filing without my husband, and was wondering the same thing. Just how deeply involved will my husband have to get with my bankruptcy? Yes, they'll need to know about his income, but what about other assets? Would they want to know if he has his own bank account? It's not that we have very much, I just don't want to involve him anymore than I have to in this. I'm stressed enough for both of us about the whole thing.

Justbeach, I'm totally feelin' ya, right now.

Is there anyone who can shed some light on this?

[justbeach03]

IamOLD- Oh he's totally taken the "package deal"- but ex hasnt given me any child support in years and I've always taken care of son's needs (insurance, clothes) with my own income. Now that I'm not working, he's had to pick up for something that my ex is required by court order to help with basic living expenses. We're trying to get that fixed, on top of BK, it's just stressing him out. More than we anticipated.

lotsahats-SUX right!? So I finally got a hold of my attorney's clerk. Don't know if this will help or if it's the same in your state, but she said we only had to provide his income for the past 6mths (paystubs). Only my assets and joint assets (they will split 50%) need to be listed. Anything not in my name didn't need to be listed. His expenses ( ie seperate Credit) needed to be under current household expenses and listed as his only, so they could factor those out of combined household income. Hope that helps. I'll let you know as i progress, but he seems to be a little more at ease now.

[Drazil65]

My husband is the one filing and I am the only one working (he is full time student), I have had to produce 6 months of paystubs, 4 yrs of joint tax returns and the last statement from my IRA (have not contributed in over a yr) so far. He is filing in the next 2 weeks and believe me I am involved even though we have no joint debt (both houses and both cars in his name only). I am the one supporting the household (we have one child together) so its all about my income right now. Sorry, but he will have to go along for the ride, my credit has been fine during this whole thing (he has been preplanning and stopped making payments on CC etc. since July so its been a few months). Set up google voice so you do not have the messages from collectors/creditors coming into your main answering system, that helped not having to hear all the calls. Good luck!

[IamOld]

Good to hear!!! But this is a stressful process, and though this board has saved me from insanity (well at least in this instance...) but like others have said - when you're married...you're married! :-) :-)

IamOLD- Oh he's totally taken the "package deal"- but ex hasnt given me any child support in years and I've always taken care of son's needs (insurance, clothes) with my own income. Now that I'm not working, he's had to pick up for something that my ex is required by court order to help with basic living expenses. We're trying to get that fixed, on top of BK, it's just stressing him out. More than we anticipated.

lotsahats-SUX right!? So I finally got a hold of my attorney's clerk. Don't know if this will help or if it's the same in your state, but she said we only had to provide his income for the past 6mths (paystubs). Only my assets and joint assets (they will split 50%) need to be listed. Anything not in my name didn't need to be listed. His expenses ( ie seperate Credit) needed to be under current household expenses and listed as his only, so they could factor those out of combined household income. Hope that helps. I'll let you know as i progress, but he seems to be a little more at ease now.

[AngelinaCatHub]

justbeach03 You state your "Dear Sweet Husband" in post #1, yet he is an ex and not paying child support??? Does not sound dear or sweet to me, but pretty self centered about himself. Do I have this right or misunderstood?

As far as getting into the Public light, yes it is Public Record, however, you are anonymous here, as well as who would just want to look at his BK records? Who would want to? Who would care as it would be in your name only anyway. So he has to get onto forms. Same deal, he is one of thousands on forms. He needs to support you more and perhaps your business would not have fallen? Reread post #2, IamOld said it well. You will get by and worry only for your self if I am reading this right. 'Hub

[DesdemonaB]

'Hub

I believe Beach is remarried or married DSH - in post #4 she states he is supporting her after a failed business and he has taken up the "slack" of Beach's ex not paying child support see post #7.

Beach

He sounds like a good man, I can understand his need to keep things separate you can help him see the sliver lining - once you file a huge burden will be lifted from your family and the three of you can start a new life together. Rather then focusing on "I don't want anyone to know" you can discuss with him "what we can do together, as a family -think about the future, our future"

I know the pain of an ex not paying child support - if he did I wouldn't be never be here, I wish you nothing but the best of luck on that process. I was able to fight with the help of free legal aid via a woman's support organization, you should look in to that in your state.

And purely to help light your spirits only... you could remind your DSH... happy wife, happy life

Good luck with everything.

[jazzladyw]

Beach, as I read your original post, I had to chuckle a little. Your post nearly identically mirrored my own situation. I read it aloud to my husband, and he asked me if I was sure that I wasn't the one who had posted it. He reacted in exactly the same way as your husband, and I felt exactly the same way as you. It will be a bit stressful for awhile, but it all shakes out in the end. Yes, he'll have to provide his income and asset information, but it's only for informational purposes. Only your creditors will be listed, and ultimately discharged. He's not required to go to the 341 meeting. Only your name is listed on the bk papers (except on the schedules listing income, etc.). The only issue would be if you both had anything joint to discharge, which you said you didn't. The only things that I had to list jointly was all of the possessions that we had, both incomes, etc. After that, he just has to try and relax and wait it out. Easier said than done, I know. We were both basket cases, argued, got angry. It does get better, I promise. Good luck! :-)

[justbeach03]

WOW! You guys (ladies) have been so supportive. Amazing how many are in similar identical situations. It really does help to know I'm not the only one. So I just pulled my free credit report and 2 of DH credit cards and Sam's Club card are on my report as an authorized user. So now what happens...Will they be closed and screw him up? I will be a non-consumer asset case, due to left over business income and a BP check. How does an asset case effect us (ie do they now look at 2011 taxes and everything stays open)?

[SunshineGal]

Hi Justbeach,

In my case, I was the non-filing spouse. Like your situation, it was a business deal gone wrong that led us down the path. Since you and DH have no *joint unsecured debt*, be sure to research tenancy by the entireties! You can find a lot of information at Jonathan Alper's site. He's a BK/Asset Protection attorney in Orlando and writes a blog. TBE won't affect your house or cars since they are just in his name, but could help with any personal property acquired after the marriage. If your attorney doesn't know about TBE and assets are a problem, find one who does.

As for your initial question....I did have to provide 6 months of paystubs and 2 years tax returns since we filed joint. Bank accounts were also joint (TBE) so we had to provide 3 months of those as well. I did NOT have to list any assets that were just in my name, including my own personal property (furniture acquired before marriage, clothing, jewelry), IRA, Life Insurance, etc. At the 341, I did attend, but only as support, I was not at the table with him, just in the room and was not allowed to say a word. My credit reports do not show anything at all in regards to the BK. Our joint debt shows on my report as paid as agreed. On his, it shows IIB and when reaffirmed it's reflected.

As for assets, the trustee *could* hold your case open pending tax returns. Your attorney in turn could point out that a portion of any tax refund belongs to DH. TBE doesn't seem to have much of an effect on tax refunds, instead they tend to base it off the portion of income earned by each spouse. IF you are kept open, it will not affect your discharge. You will have to provide your attorney with a copy of your tax return, he/she will forward to the trustee, who will then decide if they plan to take it and disburse to the creditors.

Hope this helps and feel free to pm me if I can help further.

SG

[eve4848]

I just went thru this today (341 meeting). I am the filling spouse. Same as you we have no joint acts but, adding his income helps with the means test showing with both incomes you can pay your bills. This what I was told.