Kay Jewelers

[justbroke]

What recourse does the secured lender have for items that are claimed to be "lost, stolen or gifted"?

None. The problem, in this case, is that the debtor actually spoke with the creditor's attorney and informed them of just what they had and what was "gifted" or otherwise gone. This means that the debtor stated, probably on a recording, that they still had possession of the item(s).

[justbroke]

Er, Hmm, what jewelry? The stuff I sold on Craigslist? You don't have it, they have a secured interest in nothing.

Er... the jewelry that they admitted to having.. unfortunately. This will come across the wrong way, but we should never talk to creditor attorneys unless we know what we are doing and saying. Telling the creditor that you only still have 3 of the jewelry items because you gifted 2 of them, is an admission (albeit not under oath). This will fuel the creditor because now they have reasonable belief that you do have the items in your possession.

It's a tough situation. I'd probably tell them to come and get the items. I would not go out of my way to effectuate the return of the property.

[frogger]

None. The problem, in this case, is that the debtor actually spoke with the creditor's attorney and informed them of just what they had and what was "gifted" or otherwise gone. This means that the debtor stated, probably on a recording, that they still had possession of the item(s).

I would (respectfully) tend to disagree with you on this one. The odds are that they will not do anything, however if you gift of sell something that you do not have a clear title to, that is the crime of theft by conversion.

It's happening all the time.

Picture this..... meth head takes vehicle to title pawn, pawns title (ie, pawns car), then takes the same car to a scrap yard that will take the car with no title (happens every day). The seller just sold something that was not legally their property, gets arrested and goes to jail (and released on probation in order that they can steal again and again). There is nothing different between selling that jewelry and selling that car.

In my opinion, the only possible defense for secured property is that the property was stolen, and you need to have the police report to prove it.

[justbroke]

I would (respectfully) tend to disagree with you on this one. The odds are that they will not do anything, however if you gift of sell something that you do not have a clear title to, that is the crime of theft by conversion.

Then I invite you to read my earlier posts... I said the same thing. That they will likely do absolutely nothing!

By the way, my green friend, I don't like to picture methheads!

In my opinion, the only possible defense is that the property was stolen, and you need to have the police report to prove it.

Absolutely. This thread has become the possibility of the "what ifs". In this specific case I am concerned about what was disclosed. Pure speculation, but I was, as I have done often, viewed this from the creditor attorney standpoint, and what I would do, use or say to obtain a judgment.

I will say, again, that I don't think anything is likely to happen by ignoring them. At some point, however, this particular creditor is going to entertain the idea of going through Replevin. Whether or not they do that, is anyone's guess.

[bcohen]

Not everyone files a police report on items that are stolen, especially when there is no insurance to cover the loss, the item is not worth very much money, or the item did not have a serial number (or the person does not have any record of such serial number). Are you telling me that you've never had something become "lost" or stolen, and for whatever reason decided that getting the police involved was not worthwhile? The mere fact that someone does not have a police report--especially if they did not have actual knowledge of the alleged theft at the time it occurred, or the item is worth very little money--does not in and of itself prove that the person is lying.

Anyways, in response to OP's question, I am surprised that a law firm is continuing to pursue you for such a low dollar amount. This may just be a ploy on their part, as I would assume that the cost to file a writ of replevin, have the sheriff come pick up the items, and then auction them off would far exceed whatever money they could get for the items.

[justbroke]

Anyways, in response to OP's question, I am surprised that a law firm is continuing to pursue you for such a low dollar amount. This may just be a ploy on their part, as I would assume that the cost to file a writ of replevin, have the sheriff come pick up the items, and then auction them off would far exceed whatever money they could get for the items.

I think that we can all agree on that! I think it's just aggressive collections and that they will eventually go away. This particular case peaked my interest because it is not the typical PMSI on "household goods" , a law firm is the aggressor, and the debtor all bot informed the law firm that s/he is in possession of the items.

Very interesting and different than our typical "Bass and Associates" is bothering me! Bass seems to just send one letter before discharge. This appears to be "different".