Kay Jewelers

[adampw]

I have been getting phone calls from Weltman, Weinberg & Reis Co., LPA, representing Kay Jewelers. They are trying to get me to pay them $1800 for jewelery that I purchased. They are offering to lower it to $1300 with payments. My debt was discharge in May of 2011. Originally they tried to get me to sign a reaffirmation agreement which was turned down by the judge because of the 22% interest they wanted. My lawyer tried writing them to get them to agree to 18%, in which they never replied. They judge ordered a hearing to which they failed to show. Now they are calling me saying I have to pay or return the merchandise. I have 5 items they claim I would need to return. 2 of the items I told them were either stolen or was a gift to someone I no longer speak with. I am not sure what I should do.

[drowning123]

They should have shown up for your 341. They're too late. They missed that boat. They had their chance. You get the picture. Ignore them.

[IamOld]

Right - read the stories about "best buy" - also do not speak to them on the phone. you can tell them in writing you do not have the items, and that your debt was discharged in the bk. See if they go away - if not, will your atty get involved? (They're claiming that they have a security interest in your jewelery).

[adampw]

Yes they are claiming they have a security interest in the jewelry. Originally I did sign a reaffirmation but the judge threw it out. Are they still out of luck?

[IamOld]

Good for you - re judge!!! He/she deserves a huge kudos for that!!!!!!!!

In theory they can demand that you turn over the merchandise. From what I've read here from others, such "law firms" will go away. The only thing they can demand from you is that you turn over the merchandise, which is no way worth what they're asking for! If you send them a cease and desist letter, NORMALLY they go away. if not the only thing they can do is to sue you to force you to turn the merchandise over - which they likely won't as they don't want it.

[drowning123]

I agree! Good judge! I say, as a gentle reminder, send them a cease and desist letter, plus a copy of your discharge.

[adampw]

Thank you for all the quick replies! So, even though they have a secured interest in the jewelery, I can send them a cease and desist letter? I guess I am just worried about getting sued since they are still trying to contact me and my debt was discharged back in may.

[buffetbuster]

Kay Jeweler's sent me a "nasty graham" shortly after my discharge asking for the items I purchased back. They said I did not reaffirm with them, so they need either payment or the items. I asked my attorney about this and they said to ignore them. They should've come to the 341. If it persists, my attorney said they will write them a nasty letter to make them stop. Their loss...nothing they can do at this point.

[justbroke]

There is no "they should've come to the 341" meeting. This is not a requirement for a secured creditor. The lien passes unaffected through the bankruptcy.

Sorry, but those items are indeed secured! If their attorney thinks it is worth it, they can file for a Writ of Replevin to force you to turnover the items. Usually, creditors like Best Buy, Home Depot, Lowes, and furniture stores, understand that the value of items purchased from them depreciates immediately and rapidly!

This is different for jewelers! Gold has gone up significantly, and diamonds generally hold some value. It may be worth it for the Jeweler to get pursue the repossession of the product or get a Writ of Replevin.

Personally, I would ask my attorney what to do. You "can" ignore them, but they may not go away -- since it's a jeweler and all the things I mentioned. Most "will" go away by you ignoring them, but persistent phone calls seems like they will not... especially since they've already seemed to have retained an attorney!

I have 5 items they claim I would need to return. 2 of the items I told them were either stolen or was a gift to someone I no longer speak with. I am not sure what I should do.

I'm not trying to Monday afternoon "quarterback", but what you said above, is going to now be a problem for you if they decide to "proceed" through a court. You "confirmed" that you have the product and it can't just "disappear" or claimed as given as a gift.

Please let us know how this works out. This is not "typical" behavior!

[buffetbuster]

One thing my attorney did tell me if Kay's did try to pursue, he would make them first show a signed sales receipt for the items in question. More than likely, the store that you bought it from has lost the original signed sales receipt or misplaced it. That would be the first thing he would make them prove. He said he's been very successful with secured creditors such as Kays, Best Buy, Sears, etc.

Like I said earlier, I was informed by my attorney to keep ignoring them that it will probably cost them more to pursue this than it's worth. Please keep us posted on how you make out.

[justbroke]

In this case, they have more than your average collection agency pursuing this. I like the idea of challenging receipts, but... if it came to trial... it means nothing since the Credit Card act requires you to dispute mis-billings within a reasonable period (days, not months). Yes, in the end, it's about how much they are willing to bother you for it.

What distinguishes this particular "purchase money security interest" (PMSI) debt is 1.) that it's for jewelry, and 2.) that the creditor actually sent and attempted to enter into a reaffirmation agreement with the debtor. The latter being the most telling of the two.

While I would ignore it, I would also prepare for additional and more aggressive collection tactics. Your attorney can craft a letter demanding that they prove they have a PSMI for the products purchased. This scares away the creditors that are just shaking the trees to see what falls out. I lean more towards them going away than bothering you more... but there you have it.

[OhioFiler]

There is no "they should've come to the 341" meeting. This is not a requirement for a secured creditor. The lien passes unaffected through the bankruptcy.

Sorry, but those items are indeed secured! If their attorney thinks it is worth it, they can file for a Writ of Replevin to force you to turnover the items. Usually, creditors like Best Buy, Home Depot, Lowes, and furniture stores, understand that the value of items purchased from them depreciates immediately and rapidly!

This is different for jewelers! Gold has gone up significantly, and diamonds generally hold some value. It may be worth it for the Jeweler to get pursue the repossession of the product or get a Writ of Replevin.

Personally, I would ask my attorney what to do. You "can" ignore them, but they may not go away -- since it's a jeweler and all the things I mentioned. Most "will" go away by you ignoring them, but persistent phone calls seems like they will not... especially since they've already seemed to have retained an attorney!



I'm not trying to Monday afternoon "quarterback", but what you said above, is going to now be a problem for you if they decide to "proceed" through a court. You "confirmed" that you have the product and it can't just "disappear" or claimed as given as a gift.

Please let us know how this works out. This is not "typical" behavior!

What recourse does the secured lender have for items that are claimed to be "lost, stolen or gifted"?

[IamOld]

I would just add that Kay Jewelers mark their wares up significantly - SIGNIFICANTLY....

[frogger]

What recourse does the secured lender have for items that are claimed to be "lost, stolen or gifted"?

Worst case here:

"Lost" - too bad. You pay for it anyway.

"Stolen"- Let's see the police report. (This one happens all the time)

"Gifted" - Theft by conversion. You did not own the property free and clear.

[AlmostAmos]

Er, Hmm, what jewelry? The stuff I sold on Craigslist? You don't have it, they have a secured interest in nothing.

ETA: Tell them to pound sand.