Told my wife

[IamOld]

It is indeed nice to see you back here!

Generally it's ok to buy a new car WITH A LOAN (and make sure that lien is perfected/recorded!!!) - BUT now since you're in this situation, I wouldn't do anything until you retain and speak and get advice from a BK lawyer!!!

Hey guys! Hope you're doing well. Still looking for a good attorney. I'm also waiting 45 more days so I don't have any credit card charges the last 90 days.

So we have a family car with 100k miles on it. Is it ok to buy the wife a new car before we file? Also, how far back do they look on bank statements?

"When one door closes, another opens, but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one that has been opened for us"

[Blackgoose]

Hey guys so I'm about a month away from being at the 90 day with no charges on cc. Except I'm out of money. Would it be ok to borrow 1k from my parents to make min payments for one more month to carry me over the 90 days?

[LadyInTheRed]

If you are certain you will file BK, there is no point in paying your credit cards, especially if you have to borrow money from family to do so. Don't throw good money after bad.

[Blackgoose]

But I have charges of 2k within the last 90 days. Won't they come after me?

[LadyInTheRed]

Anything's possible. But, if you wait 90 days between the charges and filing, even if you had made no payments, the creditor would have to prove you incurred the debt without intending to pay it. You have already made a couple of payments since making the charges, which is a fact on your side. But, it is unlikely to even become an issue. It really isn't worth $2k for a creditor to file an adversary proceeding where the burden of proof is on them.

ETA: Also, if those charges were not cash advances or for luxury goods and services, the creditor will still have the burden of proof if you filed the day after you made the charge.

11 USC Section 523(C)

(i) for purposes of subparagraph (A)—
(I) consumer debts owed to a single creditor and aggregating more than $500 for luxury goods or services incurred by an individual debtor on or within 90 days before the order for relief under this title are presumed to be nondischargeable; and
(II) cash advances aggregating more than $750 that are extensions of consumer credit under an open end credit plan obtained by an individual debtor on or within 70 days before the order for relief under this title, are presumed to be nondischargeable; and

[nceguyfromne]

But I have charges of 2k within the last 90 days. Won't they come after me?

If you're going to borrow money, use it to sustain your family, not your dischargeable debts! As long as you are filing 90+ days after incurring the charges then you'll be fine. You do not have to continue making payments for 90+ days after incurring the charges. Those are two completely different animals. In fact, you should stop making these payments to avoid a "preference" situation. Ideally you want to have not paid your unsecured creditors within the last 90 days at the time of filing.

As for your creditors coming after you for defaulting, you shouldn't have any issues as long as you're planning to file your case in the next few months. Your creditors won't even consider sending your accounts to collections until you're 90+ days late. AMEX was the only creditor that sent me to collections (shortly after 90 days late) but they were also my biggest balance by far. I ended up filing a couple weeks after that so it was a non-issue, but I'm pretty sure I could have held them off for a few months before a judgment became a concern.

[LadyInTheRed]

In fact, you should stop making these payments to avoid a "preference" situation. Ideally you want to have not paid your unsecured creditors within the last 90 days at the time of filing.

Actually, a debtor shouldn't be worried about preference payments unless the payments are to somebody they care about, like a family member. If preference payments are made, the trustee goes after the creditor for the money, not the debtor. The reason not to pay dischargable debts when you know you are going to file is that you are throwing money away.

[nceguyfromne]

Actually, a debtor shouldn't be worried about preference payments unless the payments are to somebody they care about, like a family member. If preference payments are made, the trustee goes after the creditor for the money, not the debtor. The reason not to pay dischargable debts when you know you are going to file is that you are throwing money away.

Granted the extra burden is on the creditors and trustee, wouldn't that nonetheless create an Asset Case where one might not have otherwise existed? By all means, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm asking because I don't know the answer.

Bottom line, Blackgoose, hold onto your cash. It's going to do you and your family a lot more good than your unsecured creditors at this stage in the game.

[drowning123]

I agree, Blackgoose. Hold on to your cash. I got a couple of payday loans a few weeks before I filed and I had no troubles with the Trustee. I just kept digging myself deeper and deeper. "Oh yea, I'll be able to pay that back." I had an epiphany. I was robbing Peter to pay Paul. I couldn't keep up. Then I found this wonderful forum, just like you did, and here I am almost a year later, free and clear of all debt. I should change my name from drowning123 to floating123.

[LadyInTheRed]

Granted the extra burden is on the creditors and trustee, wouldn't that nonetheless create an Asset Case where one might not have otherwise existed? By all means, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm asking because I don't know the answer..

Yes, it creates an asset case. But, that doesn't affect the discharge. The debtor gets a discharge and goes about his/her life while the trustee collects the asset and distributes it to the creditors.

Bottom line, Blackgoose, hold onto your cash. It's going to do you and your family a lot more good than your unsecured creditors at this stage in the game.

Definitely!
I didn't mean to detract from that message. It's just that I've seen people on here get panicked when they've discovered they've made preference payments when it really isn't as serious an issue as they may think. So, I just wanted to clarrify the consequences of preference.

[LadyInTheRed]

I should change my name from drowning123 to floating123.

I'm going to have the same problem one day. LadyInTheBlack will hopefully be a more appropriate name in about 3 1/2 years. But, I guess having our original names is a good reminder of where we've been.

[lotsahats]

I agree, Blackgoose. Hold on to your cash. I got a couple of payday loans a few weeks before I filed and I had no troubles with the Trustee. I just kept digging myself deeper and deeper. "Oh yea, I'll be able to pay that back." I had an epiphany. I was robbing Peter to pay Paul. I couldn't keep up. Then I found this wonderful forum, just like you did, and here I am almost a year later, free and clear of all debt. I should change my name from drowning123 to floating123.

Drowning, I've always thought your avatar was funny next to your username.

[drowning123]

@ lotsahats . . . LOL. It's goofy. LOL.

[drowning123]

I'm going to have the same problem one day. LadyInTheBlack will hopefully be a more appropriate name in about 3 1/2 years. But, I guess having our original names is a good reminder of where we've been.

So true about remembering where we've been.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Blackgoose. Nothing to say except thank you for keeping us up to date. We have all been concerned and you seemed to have fared well. You have done better certainly, since your first post. Grats and I cannot wait till the 'hamsters' dance for you and your lovely bride. 'Hub and Mrs.