New job within 60 days of filing ???

[aa06a47]

You kids quit fighting.

[13inOR]

Just had to give him a hard time for picking on SinkingFast's spelling earlier! : )
Plus, he called her old. I just can't stand for that.

[djk]

ya know, when I read that some lawyer told a poster to this forum that the lawyer was gonna argue that the poster did not even have to take the means test for a personal chapter 7 filing because most of the posters debts were LLC business debts I thought, (excuse the french) shit, if this is the case, anything goes. just toss whatever you want at the court and trustee and see if it sticks, if it does, great, if it does not, regroup. And this freakin' lawyer had the (french again) balls to charge 2 grand for the plan of attack. I thought to myself, remember w. c. fields ? a sucker born every day? to everyone, you do not need a lawyer. do it yourself. it can be done. just believe in yourself. OK, now all the lawyer pushers can have the stage.

[SinkingFast]

Since this thread (and the original post) is about a Chapter 7 Means Test Calculations, my responses have naturally been directed to form B 22a. I am aware of Schedules I and J but I don't know what you mean by this:


Are you suggesting that after it has been shown that "The Presumption does not arise" by a the Means Test Calculator that <what> exactly can happen?

I have physically seen a BK petition where the couple was below the Median, passed the Means Test, all property was exempted, and they were placed in a Ch 13. I compared to J resulted in $178/month of disposable income.

Just because Presumption does not arise on the Means Test does not mean it's a free ride to a Ch 7. Passing the Means Test gets you past Creditor objections on the first pass. You still have to get past the Standing or Panel Trustee, the Judge, and the US Trustee.

[SinkingFast]

ya know, when I read that some lawyer told a poster to this forum that the lawyer was gonna argue that the poster did not even have to take the means test for a personal chapter 7 filing because most of the posters debts were LLC business debts I thought, (excuse the french) shit, if this is the case, anything goes. just toss whatever you want at the court and trustee and see if it sticks, if it does, great, if it does not, regroup. And this freakin' lawyer had the (french again) balls to charge 2 grand for the plan of attack. I thought to myself, remember w. c. fields ? a sucker born every day? to everyone, you do not need a lawyer. do it yourself. it can be done. just believe in yourself. OK, now all the lawyer pushers can have the stage.

I agree, DJK!!

I do my own taxes. Even been audited. Got thru that with flying colors.

If you're brave enough, give it a go!! Especially if you have a straight forward case.

Our case isn't and I'm not brave enough. I've learned enough to know that BK Law is a specialty branch of law like Neuro Surgery is a specialty branch of medicine.

[no_it_all]

Just because Presumption does not arise on the Means Test does not mean it's a free ride to a Ch 7. Passing the Means Test gets you past Creditor objections on the first pass. You still have to get past the Standing or Panel Trustee, the Judge, and the US Trustee.

I will research that and write an opinion........Sounds like the Means test really might not mean much...Do you know of any posters that had this reversal done to them?

[djk]

I agree, DJK!!

I do my own taxes. Even been audited. Got thru that with flying colors.

If you're brave enough, give it a go!! Especially if you have a straight forward case.

Our case isn't and I'm not brave enough. I've learned enough to know that BK Law is a specialty branch of law like Neuro Surgery is a specialty branch of medicine.

how many posts have you read on the topic of "my lawyer is not doing this, or that, or I can't get ahold of my lawyer, or my lawyer screwed up, or is screwing up"? How many posts have you read from a pro se filer on the topic of "I wish I had hired a lawyer"? I'll give you just this, IF you are trying to fit a chapter 13 case into a 7 box THEN you may need legal advice, if you are a chapter 7 case and have a brain, can read and write, lawyers are not needed. It's not like surgery at all. MOST chapter 7 lawyers really do not do much at all for the money, it's show biz, the underlings do the work, which one could do themselves if they were motivated.

[SinkingFast]

how many posts have you read on the topic of "my lawyer is not doing this, or that, or I can't get ahold of my lawyer, or my lawyer screwed up, or is screwing up"? How many posts have you read from a pro se filer on the topic of "I wish I had hired a lawyer"? I'll give you just this, IF you are trying to fit a chapter 13 case into a 7 box THEN you may need legal advice, if you are a chapter 7 case and have a brain, can read and write, lawyers are not needed. It's not like surgery at all. MOST chapter 7 lawyers really do not do much at all for the money, it's show biz, the underlings do the work, which one could do themselves if they were motivated.

See, that's just it. We're borderline 7/13. Hubby makes below the Median for our State, which would make us a clear cut 7. But if the Court makes us include son's income, even tho he does not contribute to the household expenses, now we have a whole new ballgame.

And we've got outa State Exemptions to work with. And we have an elderly parent to be included in the household. And we have a college aged son we're claiming as a dependent, aged 19, to work with. And, we have a house we're letting go in the deal. And, And, And,........

So ours is not a straightforward 7, and that's why we hired an attny.

And so far, our attny and/or his paralegal have responded to every phone call and/or email we've made or sent since we hired him.

The paralegal told us her folks filed BK while she was working for another attny. She basically filed her folks' BK herself. The attny did nothing, like you noted above. She did it all. The attny just showed up at the 341 and chatted with a couple of Creditors that called. He was only there for "Show and Blow". She said that's not the case with the guy she works for now. He is a very good attny and he works hard for his clients. She said if she had it to do all over again, she'd have him handle her parents' BK instead. He woulda done a much better job for them and even saved them some assets they lost when they did file.

[djk]

See, that's just it. We're borderline 7/13. Hubby makes below the Median for our State, which would make us a clear cut 7. But if the Court makes us include son's income, even tho he does not contribute to the household expenses, now we have a whole new ballgame.

And we've got outa State Exemptions to work with. And we have an elderly parent to be included in the household. And we have a college aged son we're claiming as a dependent, aged 19, to work with. And, we have a house we're letting go in the deal. And, And, And,........

So ours is not a straightforward 7, and that's why we hired an attny.

And so far, our attny and/or his paralegal have responded to every phone call and/or email we've made or sent since we hired him.

The paralegal told us her folks filed BK while she was working for another attny. She basically filed her folks' BK herself. The attny did nothing, like you noted above. She did it all. The attny just showed up at the 341 and chatted with a couple of Creditors that called. He was only there for "Show and Blow". She said that's not the case with the guy she works for now. He is a very good attny and he works hard for his clients. She said if she had it to do all over again, she'd have him handle her parents' BK instead. He woulda done a much better job for them and even saved them some assets they lost when they did file.

these comments are not directed to you personally. There is a special place in hell for lawyers that divert 13 cases into 7's. If there is any job on the planet that a scammer would be good at it would be as a lawyer who specializes in taking 13 cases and malforms them into 7's, and BTW, who also advertises on late night TV and in the phone book. So, yes, I think if anyone who qualifies for a 13 but wishes to take advantage of a chance to pull off a 7, then some "expert" legal counsel may be advisable if only to cover your ass and have someone to point your finger at if it does not work. Hopefully these petitioners are not successful, Just my opinion, I could be wrong. You see, I do not believe in subverting the system.

[SinkingFast]

I don't believe in working around the system either, DJK.

But I also don't want to go in and say, "Yep, we'll pay back $197/mo for 5 years." if a good attny knows an inside scoop that will get me in as a 7.

We've lost everything. I'd like to at least walk away from having filed BK with a complete fresh start. Now. Not 5 years from now.

I don't mean that to sound greedy or anything. We've been thru 2 years of Hell getting here. The several years before that weren't great either. I am just beat, and deciding to file BK was the last straw. When that first attny wanted to put us in a 5 year Ch 13 plan, I about died. I cried all the way home from the Consult and thought to myself, "Why us God??!!"