New job within 60 days of filing ???

[SinkingFast]

Well, if you think these two sentences have the same meanings, don't EVER take the Miller Anthology Test....trust me!





Now, please LISTEN carefully! You can learn something today!! Obviously you have read LostOne0069's post. BUT, your interpretation is incorrect.

How do I know that? Because you posted your interpretation! The "problem" with LostOne0069's car payment wasn't entirely due to the dollar amount. It is also a function of how much INCOME there is!! To wit: If the income was higher, the attorney would feel reasonably sure that continued payments would be made, and made in a timely manner. To read that post, and conclude that "the court wouldn't allow it" is a HUGE leap of (il)logic. The COURT NEVER DECIDED !! THE ATTORNEY DID!!

Now before you come back with another incredibly poorly written and researched post, be aware of this:
EVERY Law school in the country requires the LSAT (Law School Admissions Test). That exam measures a students competence in abilty areas that are ESSENTIAL to someone studying the law. Do you happen to know what those abilities are and what the LSAT tests for? Of course you don't..so I will tell you:
1. Reading Comprehension
2. Analytical Reasoning (Logic games)
3. Logical Reasoning
If those abilities are in short supply it DOSEN'T mean that person cannot post on a BK forum. But, if it is evidenced by writing strange and disconnected posts that the individual IS lacking certain skills in these arenas, then they should not feel obligated or bound in any way to try and "trump" posts of those that do have those essential skills...Believe it or not, someplace, somewhere, there is someone smarter than you (and me). I guess in English what I am trying to say is that you are probably a really nice older lady, and please don't feel like you have to keep up with me..you can't. I have two graduate degrees, one in Engineering and one in Education (go figure). Some of your recent posts are really getting wacky and you run the danger of losing credibilty as it relates to technical questions. Warm and fuzzy? Yeah, you got those posts covered, and they are important also...so peace out and think about what I have written...

Ah you twit.

If you did a little research you'd know that Lost is BELOW the Median Income level for his area.

And that's the thing, dear. You obviously haven't been to chat with any attny's or you'd know that attny's do decide.

And I would certainly hate for one of my kids to have you as an "Educator".

And who you calling OLD??!! I could take you around the block and back again before you ever knew what hit you!!

[no_it_all]

What we all have to understand is that there are bk rules and local bk rules. What happens with one trustee and one court may be different than another trustee/court, and when there are more than one trustee, I think it even varies inside the same court system. I'm sure if your in southern california, the trustee/court wouldn't bat an eye brow at a 690/month car payment, while one in Little Rock ARK would say holey cow Bill, your can't spend that much on that limo.

That, IMO, is why people shouldn't take everything I or anybody else says as the gospel, especially when it comes to allowable expenses.

As it relates to the Means Test Calculator for determining eligibilty for Chapter 7, everyone uses the same number on line 23a and line 24a (if they have a second car). That number is 471 dollars and 332 dollars respectfully, which are basically, allowable car payment expenses for the Means Test. Local costs actually are used in the Means Test also, for example, housing, food, utilities, cost of operating a vehicle and several more items.

I believe the confusion begins when someone is posting about the Means Test and the replies are referencing something completely unrelated. For example: A post may ask about where to put a 600 dollar auto loan on the Means Test and the reply may say, don't bother, it can't be included because it is over the maximum (??). That may be true on another form or as you say in another location, but has nothing at all to do with the Means Test.

[no_it_all]

He's gonna get roughly $475/month as an allowable expense for the car payment portion. Really depends on the principal balance and the interest rate of the loan amortized out over 60 months. But that's gonna be a fair ball park guesstimate.

Wrong...Time for some hints: Principle balance and interest rate are irrelevent. This isn't even math for crying out loud! It is arithmetic!! Should be easy for a former engineering researcher (assuming they can add and read!) Try again!!! If you don't post, I will assume you can do neither!...(and so will everyone else!). REMEMBER NO CHEATING...Btw, it took me about twenty-five seconds!!

[no_it_all]

And that's the thing, dear. You obviously haven't been to chat with any attny's or you'd know that attny's do decide.

Oh really??? What about this post:

The Court won't allow it.

Hey, but what if the attorney allowed it? Would they have to fight? They have this new boxing thing going on in Europe..you box for two minutes, then play chess for two minutes, box for two minutes, chess for two minutes. Maybe the judges and lawyers could do that, and the last man standing decides what to do with the car payment !!!

Sooooo do the courts decide (like you say in your post) or do the lawyers decide (like ah, you say in your post) ?????


I am sooooo confused by this!!!!! HELP!!!

[no_it_all]

Contrary to what you read and believe you think you know, if and when you do actually see an attny, the attny is gonna set some boundaries on your expenses.

Really?? The attorney is going to set the boundaries. I see, thank you. OH, what if you don't have an attorney??? Or better yet, if you are your own attorney, can you set anything you want? I mean, you are the attorney, and according to you, attorneys are the ones that set boundaries...kewel!

[13inOR]

No It All==you need to go far, far away. I see you mean it when you say you give advice for "entertainment purposes only. I think its to entertain YOURSELF, because its really not doing much for the rest of us.

[no_it_all]

<snip>An increase in salary in a Chapter 7 has little affect because of liquidation , but a salary increase in a Chapter 13 does have an impact on the disposable income.

EXACTLY! that is why when the poster asked if he had to worry about an increased income during A CHAPTER 7 bankruptcy I answered the followiing:

no

See! I correctly answered his post in only two letters!! And look what it snowballed into because of YOU -KNOW - WHO <wink>

NOTE: You need to start you your own thread if you want to have a battle of "words and wits" with other members. I'm sure the person who started this thread did not appreciate you taking it over.

I roger that!

BY THE WAY - You got a brother named Lightening????

???? nope!

BTW, did you take my Means Test quiz?? Give it a shot and we can chew on it on another thread. Move it if you want.

[no_it_all]

No It All==you need to go far, far away. I see you mean it when you say you give advice for "entertainment purposes only. I think its to entertain YOURSELF, because its really not doing much for the rest of us.

Give my Means Test quiz a shot...it is just for fun!!! Not EVERYONE feels the same way you do, do they??? Huh, do they???

[SinkingFast]

I can't wait until you actually meet with some attnys.

I imagine your head will explode when the attnys tell you, "The Court is used to seeing,...." on each and every expense you challenge them on.

While you refuse to accept it, there's the Schedules allowables, the Court allowables, and what the attny feels comfortable in submitting. What you actually spend in any particular category has very little to do with it, unless you can demonstrate some special need.

Say you're a single person and your Court is used to seeing $400/month for food. That's all your attny is gonna enter on your petitions. Unless you're say, a diabetic, or have high blood pressure, some health condition that requires extra expense for food for a special diet.

Attnys are not going to write up what ever numbers you tell them to. They just won't do it. The New Law holds them accountable, financially, for your petition. If an attny take you in as a Ch 7, and the Court boots you to Ch 13, the attny gets fined. If the Court finds errors in your pay accounting, or orders an appraisal of your household belongings that differs with what the attny has written up in the Schedules, the attny gets fined.

But you'll learn all this for yourself, first hand, once you stop reading and start hoofing around from attny to attny.

With your attitude, I imagine you'll have a tough time finding an attny to take your case. Attnys don't like to be micro managed. The Law is their turf and they don't like lay people crossing over the line.

I double dawg dare you to mention PACER to the first attny you meet face to face. Just say the word. PACER. See what kind of reaction you get.

[no_it_all]

No, I believe you may be confusing some other BK form with the Means Test form. Your argument doesn't even apply to anything that has been discussed in this thread..I think you are a little bit <mentally fatigued>. Food, clothing, household supplies, personal care items, etc are a function of your income, not what you "claim". Same with auto expenses, transportation costs, utilities, housing, including rents, etc. These figures are called "National Standards" or "Local Standards". Both National and Local standards are used on the Means Test. You have posted some interesting tidbits, but sadly, they are again irrelevant to the post and the thread. BTW still struggling with that arithmetic huh?? Don't give up!! AND NO CHEATING!

[SinkingFast]

Have you even bothered to look beyond the Means Test?? At an actual BK Petition?? An actual BK Petition is soooooooooo much more than just the Means Test.

Do you know what Schedules I and J are??

Cause after the Means Test, no matter the outcome there, it all comes down to I and J.

Believe it or not.

And that's where you'll get into what the Court will and won't allow. What attnys will and won't file.

[13inOR]

Oh my!!! I discovered a glaring error by his royal highness Sir No It All !!!
It appears that he misspelled the word "irrelevant" in his last post above!!
Could it be true??? Horrors!!!!! HIM?? Misspell something??? NEVER!!!

[no_it_all]

Since this thread (and the original post) is about a Chapter 7 Means Test Calculations, my responses have naturally been directed to form B 22a. I am aware of Schedules I and J but I don't know what you mean by this:

Cause after the Means Test, no matter the outcome there, it all comes down to I and J.

Are you suggesting that after it has been shown that "The Presumption does not arise" by a the Means Test Calculator that <what> exactly can happen?

[no_it_all]

Oh my!!! I discovered a glaring error by his royal highness Sir No It All !!!
It appears that he misspelled the word "irrelevant" in his last post above!!
Could it be true??? Horrors!!!!! HIM?? Misspell something??? NEVER!!!

You know, when I wrote it it looked a little funny...thank you for pointing it out.

Are you SURE or do I have to go to dictionary dot com??

[13inOR]

Oh no, no need to check, I am quite sure about it.