embarrasing question

[momto2boys]

I am very embarrased to ask this question, but I figure I might as well get it out of the way.



I am considering filing for bankrupsty. When I first started getting my CC's my credit was okay, but I paid every month & then my credit was pretty good, and then more CC offers came. I occasionally would lie about my income to get higher credit limits ( STUPID, I KNOW ) I remember when I got my Fleet card I was making a total of about $5,000 or so a year & I wrote down that I was making over $50,000, I lied because I wanted a higher limit so I could do a balance transfer with zero percent interest for several months on my other card.

If I file will this be brought up? Afterall I did lie on my application that I did online, after they had already pre-approved me. Have any of you ever lied & had it brought up at a later time? Also about $2500 of my income that I make is paid in cash to me by people that I clean for. I dont make much doing this, but I have never reported this on my taxes ( bad again ). So my income would show to be less than $3,000 a year with over $10,000 in debt if you add all the late payments, over the limit fee's, etc... I only work at the grocery store 2 nights per week & my take home is very little, so I do not make much.

The creditors will find this fishy wont they if they see my income as less than $3,000? My hours were cut last year, but they were cut through my cleaning jobs & thats why I am so broke! I cant even send my son to preschool because I literally have nothing! Hubby is in bad shape too, he has tons of bills. We have made stupid mistakes & we regret them all now.

Thoughts?

[aa06a47]

Yes, you might be in trouble. How old is your debt? If it is recent debt, you best not try filing pro-se, you best go with a lawyer, but then again, a lawyer will cost you a years salary.

If you only make 3K a YEAR? then your more or less judgement proof. They can come after you but they won't collect much of anything. Even garnishment will get them very very little. I would just ride it out and hope they write it off. This is my opinion, you probably should consult an attorney. For 10K in debt, I doubt it will be worth the 2-3K it will cost your filing BK.

[momto2boys]

Thank you! My debt has all been accumulated withing the past 2 years.

[Minnymouth]

Since both of you have serious financial problems I would consider filing a chapter 7 to wipe the slate clean......

Unless you own a home, etc that you want to keep..... then your almost required to file a chapter 13 to protect your assets if you have equity in the home.

Consult with an attorney (both of you) and see what your options are. The consultation is free.....

He can tell you the best route to take..... Be honest with him......

The fact you lied on the application will not help a whole lot but if not brought up by the creditor or the creditor does not object to discharge it may not become an issue....

Do the consultation, check out your options, and see what route to go from there.....

Do it before things get any worse in your financial life..... believe me it will help..........

Minny

[FoolAndHisMoney]

If you applied years ago then you probably will be ok. Keep in mind that the lying on your application doesn't always constitue fraud unless the creditors can prove that they relied on your stated income to give you the loan. Most credit card companies will grant anyone a large balance with no regard to the income that was stated on the credit application. This section of fraud mostly applies to someone applying for a loan and outright lying about income, creating false w2's, paystubs, etc. Regular loans always depend upon income while credit card companies usually don't.

[AMISLANDER]

guess who used to input cc information....lol

Years & years ago...right after college...I worked nights for American Express in Sunrise, FL...so I could go to the beach all day....

I used to input AE credit card applications from 5 p.m. to 1 a.m. I was 22...at that time, imagine all the information that you have to give on a cc application and the access that I had and how bad I could screw things up & probably how much I just keyed in and passed over?

I would imagine it's a whole new ball game then....but responsibility would still fall on the person in charge of inputting your income source(s) for passing the application along...

People do usually jack up their incomes for cc...but upping it by $45K is pretty bold...at this point, I wouldn't worry about it...water over the bridge...sounds like you're pretty untouchable anyhow...they can't get blood from a stone.

[GoingDown]

I have questions about this too.

Is it really fraud? I thought credit card fraud was using someone elses' credit information without their authorization to obtain merchandise or money, etc. Kind of like identity theft, right?

But when credit cards raise the limits over and over again without even asking for updated income information, which is what they did in my case, and I was only making the minimum payments, then really who is at fault? I would think it would be a bad business decision to raise someone's credit limit when they obviously couldn't pay off their balance at the end of each month.

Anyways, back to my question. Let's say a credit card company gets a judgment against me and then calls for a judgment debtor exam, and finds out that I overstated my income on my credit card application, could they charge me with a felony offense of credit card fraud? Or does this "fraud" only apply to discharging debts in bankruptcy?

[SinkingFast]

I'm kinda of the school of thought that,............ If you'd done the applications years ago, there would be no problem. But recent applications where you said your income was 10X what it really is,........... That may be a problem.

And no. We've never lied about income on a credit app. CC or otherwise. We either got the credit on our own merit or it was denied.

I think as Amis says, the CC company might think there'd been some sort of transcription error. But the CC company does have all the records to go back and the information. To know if it were their employee's error, or inaccurate information given by the applicant.

But like Aa pointed out,............ If you don't own any property to speak of,......... A house or expensive car, or such. And your reported "earned income" is very low, you are practically "Judgement Proof". You don't have anything for the Creditors to go after. Therefore it would not be worth their time or their attnys fees to pursue you.

Consults with attnys are free, generally. You could schedule a few, chat with some attnys, discuss your situation, and see what they have to say.

[scammer]

Now I always get beat up for operating at the edge of the envelope, but I would never do something this stupid, it is fraudulant. My attorney and myself have become pretty good friends. I have met him a few times for a beer or two. He talks about some of the stupid things people do, no names or anything, just what people attempt and try to justify. He told me about a month ago of a case just like this, my attorney was represnting the US Trustee in the case. He would be acting as a Assistant to the US Trustee in this capacity, they easily and successfully turned it into a criminal complaint. It doesn't matter how long ago, it doesn't matter she is judgement proof, it is theft by deception, easy as that. If you think there isn't dialogue between creditors and the Trustee your nuts. Maybe she will get off, I wish her well, if someone decides to prosecute it is an easy case.

[LostOne0069]

Saying you make $50k when you really only make $5k IS fraud... BUT the real question here is: are you likely to get cought.

If you walk into your 341 meeting and tell the trustee that you applied for credit and lied about how much you made... you're toast, they'll dismiss the bk filing and won't even let you do a chapter 13.

I doubt very much that the trustee is going to see any of the credit applications that you filled out. The only way that this is going to happen is if the creditors bring them to his/her attention... meaning the creditors think you lied on the application... THIS is only likely to happen on a debt that is recent and/or you haven't made very many payments on.

Your best bet may be to just keep your head down and hope that no one brings it up.

Oh, by the way... not cool to lie on legal documents... REALLY not cool. Could get you sent to jail.

Thus, even though above I'm saying to "keep your head down and hope it doesn't come up" I am NOT saying to lie about it. If you are asked about this, you really should answer accurately because if you don't... and get found out... bad things will happen. The LEAST of which would be that your case gets dismissed.

You just got to hope that you don't get asked about it.

[anonymuse]

Scary situation. Can we say typo? 50,000 instead of 5,000? I don't know--good luck.

[scammer]

I feel sorry for her two boys, with mom going jail and all.

The choices we make in life, make the bed we must lay in after those choices. I like my bed personally right were it is, I like my home in the posh suburb of Wheaton, IL, I like my wife, kids, Computer, Plasma TV's free courtesy of Best Buy, Porsche, Mercedes, (yes I ended up jacking the Trustee around on that slightly damaged car, if you remember my post on that, he signed off on letting me keep that asset recently) and all the other wonderful free stuff I got before I filed, I even love Ernie our dog that sleeps and poops all the time. I actually just plain love my freedom, that this wonderful, cold heartless country afford me, but I really love my right to file. This thread lights my fire, I have been bashed so many times for things that are legal, but considered aggressive tactic's by my savy attorney. Yet we all no what this lady did, were are all those bashers now???? Life is a war, after what happened to me at my previous employer, I say take no prisoners, and I intend to scam my way LEGALLY through it. People that do dumb things before BK are at the mercy of the US Department of Justice, in case you forgot who is behind the bk process. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered, LOCK EM UP!!

Another dosy of a post from Scammer, is that how you spell doosy, dosy, I suck at grammer, good thing I don't count on it for a living.

Love me hate me, I kept my crap legally............

[LostOne0069]

Well, believe it or not Scammer... I agree with you in a way... I would really just change your wording a bit. It's not a "scam" if you're using the law to keep stuff... I dont' care WHAT that stuff is.

After all, the trustee is going to use the same exact laws to take everything he can from you... irregardless of if it seems "fair" or not.

It's not a scam to follow the law as honestly as you can to the best advantage you can.

[jane taylor]

I don't really think it's "scamming" either if it is legal and you are OK with it. I'm the only one who has to live with my conscience. At least, Scammer, you're honest and I can appreciate that. If I let myself I still get really ticked when I think about losing a really good paying job due to politics.

[scammer]

I don't really think it's "scamming" either if it is legal and you are OK with it. I'm the only one who has to live with my conscience. At least, Scammer, you're honest and I can appreciate that. If I let myself I still get really ticked when I think about losing a really good paying job due to politics.

amen on the office politics, im with ya sister.

I gotta find a new word instead of scam, something a little easier sounding............maybe.........manipulate.....I gotta work on that.