VERY confused about post 341 timeline...

[Judeebubzee]

Hi everyone,
I was looking at the sticky for post 341 timeline but I'm still very confused. I know that our 341 is approximately 30-45 days after receiving our case #. What I don't understand is how or why any trustee or creditor would object AFTER the 341 meeting if you are listed "no asset" on pacer after the 341 and the meeting is "smooth." If the trustee has no issue at the meeting and no creditor shows up, why in the world would anyone be worried after that point? I would assume that if no one objects (trustee or creditor) at the meeting, then they wouldn't object at all, at any point. What could possibly come up after that point that would change a no-asset case into a potential issue? Thanks for your help.

[keepmine]

Creditors lose no rights by not attending the 341. They have 60 days from the date of the 341 meeting to file an objection to the discharge of their debt.
Also, your case could attract the attention of the UST {the panel trustee's boss} and they could get involved. This could happen if you're a well above median filer and the UST starts going over your petition with a microscope.

[sh9730]

Judee,

I think you are confused between "no asset" and "dischargeability". Just because the court deems that you have no assets, does not automatically mean that all of your debts will be discharged in the BK. And as Keepmine says, the creditors have 60 days AFTER the 341 to file objections to whether any of their debts are dischargeable at all. It is rare that they file these objections, but read the sections on "adversary proceedings" and you will get the details on when they usually, and/or can object.

SO, lets say for example a creditor DOES complain and then WINS the case, and as such the 500 dollars you were hoping to have discharged in the BK is not. You still then owe that debt...it is as if the BK never occurred, for THAT debt....it doesnt affect any of the other debts in your case (unless you have multiple objections and they all win their case). That creditor can then garnish wages, etc just as if you had never filed BK. The fact that you are deemed "no asset" isnt a factor.

The reason the courts allow the process of objecting is so that people dont run up a bunch of charges when they already know (or should reasonably know) they are going to declare bankrupcty. That wouldnt be fair to the creditors.

Make more sense now? When you read the AP section you will see it is very hard for the creditor to show that the charges were not made in good faith (lots of rules about how recent the chrages were, did you buy luxury items, did you TRY to pay it back at all etc..)...hence they dont do it very often.

Probably nothing to worry about in your case....but keep reading.

[Judeebubzee]

Ooooh, OK. Thank you both for clearing that up. I'm not that concerned personally (since I haven't used any credit cards in over 3 years), but 2 of my debts that are almost 4 years old and are still owned by the original credit card company which makes me wonder if they are doing that so they could object. I'm guessing that's probably just my paranoia kicking in since I'm guessing they would have sued me already, but this whole BK thing makes me such a nervous wreck. Thanks again guys. This board is priceless.

[Kensington24]

Hello, I am a new member and please forgive if I'm jumping where I shouldn't. I am desperately trying to get some information and just can't find the basics yet on this site. - I am hoping to meet w/ a BK attorney next week - we have been playing phone tag for over a week. Briefly - I was recently approved for a perm loan mod on my first - I still have a second (non-purchase) w/ a balance of $107K. I live in CA. Can I keep my home and still file BK 7? I have $15K in IRS debt and less than $10K in CC's. MY CC's and IRS are current but barely - I have not made payments on the second for several months. Will I be able to keep my home? Thank you so much.

[newbie2]

Hello, I am a new member and please forgive if I'm jumping where I shouldn't. I am desperately trying to get some information and just can't find the basics yet on this site. - I am hoping to meet w/ a BK attorney next week - we have been playing phone tag for over a week. Briefly - I was recently approved for a perm loan mod on my first - I still have a second (non-purchase) w/ a balance of $107K. I live in CA. Can I keep my home and still file BK 7? I have $15K in IRS debt and less than $10K in CC's. MY CC's and IRS are current but barely - I have not made payments on the second for several months. Will I be able to keep my home? Thank you so much.

Hi Kensington24. First, to start a new thread look at the upper left hand corner of each forum. There will be a blue box that says "post new" or something to that affect. It is located just underneath the forum description (general, Chapter 7, etc.) You'll get many more pertinent responses to your own thread, rather than tagging at the end of another one.

To find the basics of bankruptcy on this site, look at the top of each forum and you'll see "stickies". Those are so helpful in describing the typical and normal aspects of each Chapter of the bankruptcy process. Spend some time reading them and it will help alot.

We don't know how much your home is worth (is it upside down when you add the first and 2nd mortgages?) so it is impossible to let you know whether you'd be able to keep your house (or whether you should try to keep it!). Since you are behind in your 2nd mortgage payments that makes it a bit more difficult a process, but again, we don't know if the 2nd mortgage holder has any incentive to foreclose or not.

I'm glad you have a meeting with an attorney next week. Read here as much as you can so you know what to ask the attorney, and good luck to you.

[jetsfan2010]

the sticky threads in this section will answer every question posed in this thread.

[Kensington24]

Thank you both - I will try to navigate my way to the sticky threads . . . in answer to the question about my home value - I have no equity. Loan value on the 1st is more than it's worth by $50K. Homes like mine have sold for $550K - my new principal balance is $596K. I owe $107K on the second. I would assume the second would not want it but they also refused to offer me a loan modification so I stopped paying them.

[keepmine]

Thank you both - I will try to navigate my way to the sticky threads . . . in answer to the question about my home value - I have no equity. Loan value on the 1st is more than it's worth by $50K. Homes like mine have sold for $550K - my new principal balance is $596K. I owe $107K on the second. I would assume the second would not want it but they also refused to offer me a loan modification so I stopped paying them.

You want to exit bk in a lot better shape than you entered. Upside down by over $50K on the primary mortgage is jeopardizing that fresh start. Think long and hard about dragging this albatross through bk.
As to the second, you'd be eligible for a lein strip if you file a Chapter 13 since, the 2nd us totally unsupported by any equity. Your lawyer will explain that but, that would be the best option if you intend to keep your home.

If bk is a viable option, stop paying those cc's which can be discharged in bk and be absolutely certain you can stay current on the IRS debt since, it would appear to be nondischargeable.

[jetsfan2010]

You want to exit bk in a lot better shape than you entered. Upside down by over $50K on the primary mortgage is jeopardizing that fresh start. Think long and hard about dragging this albatross through bk.
As to the second, you'd be eligible for a lein strip if you file a Chapter 13 since, the 2nd us totally unsupported by any equity. Your lawyer will explain that but, that would be the best option if you intend to keep your home.

If bk is a viable option, stop paying those cc's which can be discharged in bk and be absolutely certain you can stay current on the IRS debt since, it would appear to be nondischargeable.

Keepmine is right on point here re: the home. When I filed my original ch 13 last fall, one of the tougher decisions to make was to let the house go and rent. I am glad I did looking back. My lender did not come after me for any deficency balance, and the house is now up for foreclosure sale literally 50 percent less than what I was on the hook for it.

[Kensington24]

Thank you. I am torn over the home because the permanent loan mod allows me stay in my home for what I would pay in rent given my needs. So my thought was to try to hang on to the home and deal with the second and the last of my CC debt and possibly a car payment that I am making for my daughter on a lease I got tangled up in (we had to put in her name because my credit is shot). She is getting on her feet and working two jobs but the payment is beyond her reach - and mine at this moment. It sounds like I will still be on the hook for the IRS debt too. I was convinced the permanent loan modification would be part of the solution and I could deal w/ the rest of my debt through BK - I just don't know now. Thank you for your support and guidance.