Bill incurred before BK, not included (didn't know of it) ??

[Over our heads]

Treehugger suggested I post this question here.


The short story is, I took my son to the optometrist in 9-08. Never received a bill from said dr. We filed in 6-09, discharged 12-09. This office got around to calling me yesterday (really? our numbers. haven't changed) and they want their $. In all honesty, the only reason I don't want to pay it is because the lady flat out lied. "We've been trying to call and left messages with no response from you." No, you haven't, as I answer my phone, and check every message. "We've been mailing." No, you haven't. Even tho we have moved twice, we are still getting our mail forwarded, not to mention, we didn't move from our address on file until 2010!

So, the dr. wasn't specifically included in the list of creditors, am I obligated to pay the bill, or just send them a copy of my discharge?

TIA!

[despritfreya]

If you were a "no asset" Chapter 7 the debt was discharged even though you forgot to list it. If there were any assets to be distributed you are stuck. Assuming a no asset case send the good Dr. a copy of the discharge with a note that it was a no asset case therefore the debt was discharged. Send the letter Certified and keep a copy of everything.

Des.

[Over our heads]

Thank you so much!

[angles]

des, what do you mean if there were any assets to be distributed you are stuck? does that mean if the OP was an asset case they would be responsible for the debt?

[justbroke]

In an asset case, the creditor is considered to be "injured" since they were unable to participate in any distribution from the liquidation of the estate. In other words, the creditor didn't get any proceeds from the asset case. The discharge rules in 11 USC 523 are quite clear on this topic.

So, the bottom line is that a debt that was not listed on the petition and the creditor otherwise had no actual or constructive notice of the case, and it was an asset case, then the debt is not discharged (11 USC 523).

The caselaw is pretty good on this fact. The caselaw is also pretty good on the fact that a discharge discharges all debts the arose prior to the filing of the petition in a no-asset Chapter 7. Even if those debts weren't listed. Technically, some Jurisdictions won't even allow the debtor to re-open a no-asset Chapter 7 for the sole purpose of listing a missed creditor. As some judges put it, re-opening the case would serve no purpose since the debt is technically and actually discharged. It would be pointless to re-open just to add a creditor.

[despritfreya]

des, what do you mean if there were any assets to be distributed you are stuck? does that mean if the OP was an asset case they would be responsible for the debt?

JB's response is spot on. . .

Des.

[jetsfan2010]

good info!

[IBroke]

It would be pointless to re-open just to add a creditor.

Yep, the "no harm, no foul"-rule (I'm getting good at this, huh?).

I already had to deal with an old ebay-account from 2006 that demanded $140 from me although I didn't even recall it so it wasn't part of my schedule. Basically, I told the collection-agency in my request for validation that any further collection-attempts would either be a violation of the FCRA (if not validated) or a violation of the permanent injunction (if validated). That was fun and so far, I didn't get any response.