My mother added me and my sister to her house deed, now I'm filing ch 7, problems?

[ValleYum]

We have a small amount of equity in our current home of $4000 based on an independent appraisal. We'd be over the limit.

How would you be over the limit?

If you file a Chapter 7 JOINTLY with your husband and use the federal set of exemptions, you will have $21,625.00 EACH to use towards a homestead exemption. If you only have $4,000.00 worth of equity in your home, then you will have $39,240.00 remaining of your joint federal homestead exemption. Therefore, you would still have the UNUSED portion of that homestead exemption up to a maximum of $10,825.00 EACH to use as a wild-card.

This federal wild-card would allow you to have a total of $21,650.00 in exemptions (if filing jointly) to use on ANY OTHER PROPERTY (i.e.: equity in vehicles over the federal exemption, jewelry over the federal exemption, cash, tax refunds, etc.). This is what you could use to cover your share of equity in your mom's home and would be within ~$5,000 even if you had to claim the full 1/3 of the $80,000.00 value - if the home is now worth less than that it would make the $$ difference even less!

Remember, too, that the trustee should take into consideration that he has to pay your mom and your sister and a realtor BEFORE he would make a profit off of any of your portion of your mom's house.

It also may be worth it to get a CMA (comparable market analysis) done by a realtor on your mom's house. (Have you typed her address into zillow.com just to see what it valued her home at?) My CMA cost $50.00 and I was SHOCKED at how much it said my house was worth - it was much less than I had ever thought - and it was about $5,000.00 less than zillow.

I know you talked to your attorney and feel comfortable with his knowledge but it doesn't hurt to ask questions or jog his memory if there still is a possibility to gain the relief of a bankruptcy.

You are in my thoughts. I wish you well.

[murphsmom]

The Zestimate on my moms house is exactly what I valued it at, $80,000. I'm a real estate agent, and can run a CMA on home, but that $80k is pretty accurate.

I will talk to the attorney about the homestead exemption. It seems too simple, why wouldn't he have mentioned that to me on the phone? Wondering how many phone calls to your attorney is "too many" before you start to get annoying, but I need answers, and he already has $1500 of ours, so I don't feel too bad.

The only other asset that we have that we want to keep is our boat, with a recent auction appraisal value (again, at the suggestion of our attorney) of $4500 from a reputable appraisal company that trustees themselves use. It's an old boat, but the only source of enjoyment my family has, we use it as a camper, actually. I do not want to part with my boat. I have a wedding ring that honestly is worth maybe $500? It was my mother in laws diamond that my husband had reset for me on our 20th anniversary, as I lost my original diamond 9 years ago . One old car that my son drives valued around $1200. My husbands current car has no equity in it, the blue book value now is currently what he owes.

[debee]

Looks like you two were posting at the same time.

Good catch on doubling the exemptions, VYum.

Also, the value of your interest in your Mom's property is not going to include any possible amount for appreciation or depreciation. It's the value of the asset at the time of filing according to the IRS method.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

eta: Your attorney told you that your interest in Mom's home was 30K but according to this own website, it's more like 10K. Maybe he's not as good as you initially thought.

You can read about the bankruptcy exemptions and how you can apply unused homestead exemptions, and double as per VYum's advice here: http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankrup...-law.php?ST=NY

[murphsmom]

Dumb question, would the interest in my mothers home actually fall under homestead exemption if I don't reside in the home, but, it actually is a home. Or would it have to fall under the wild card exemption?

[debee]

Wild card.

The link in my earlier post (waaaayyyyy back on the first or second page of this behemoth ) is the court case of someone in NY who tried to exempt it as a homestead, and the trustee fought it. (The trustee ultimately lost but only because the son lived in the house with the Mom and had done so for roughly 30 years.)

Federal exemptions allow you to apply your UNUSED homestead exemption amount as a wildcard to any property. Doubled as VYum pointed out if you file joint.

[murphsmom]

OK, so if the federal wild card is $10,125, X2, that's a wild card total of $20,250 , less $4000 equity in our home = $16250. If we exempt the $11,500 in my mothers home, plus the $4500 for the boat, we just make it by $250!!!????

That doesn't leave much room for error, however we do have 2 very strong appraisals for our current house and boat, and the figures seem very accurate and indisputable regarding the interest in moms home.

Another dumb question. Since my husband is not on the deed to my moms house, are you sure we can still apply his $10,125 "half" of the wild card to exempt MY interest in the house?


Wheels are a spinnin'... I've learned a lot today!

SO SORRY for this hugely long thread!

[murphsmom]

...if the numbers were too tight to fly, we could always buy back the boat.

[debee]

The 10K amount was the NY state exemption amount. As VYum (yay!) pointed out in her post, you may be better off with the Federal exemptions because the homestead exemption there is over 21K each.

You can choose one set of exemptions or the other. Always good to investigate those before filing to see which set will cover most of your assets.

You choose the set that works best for your situation, which in this case seems to be the federal set.

If you went to the legalconsumer page (link in post about exemptions) look near the top to where it says "federal exemptions" and click there.

Or just google "federal bankruptcy exemptions". Or check the links at the top of the forum. Not sure who has the most updated set of numbers. legalconsumer is usually a good bet so I go there.

edit: I just saw your apology for the huge thread. Don't apologize. We're all here to help people in bk and are all happy to do it. The more voices, the more options for you and we're all here to help. It's a big thread so hard to refer to previous posts, but there was nothing implied & no complaint when I said that.

[ValleYum]

Federal Bankruptcy Exemptions

Homestead - $21,625*

$550 per item in any household goods up to a total of $11,525

Jewelry - $1,450

Motor vehicle - $3,450

Tools of trade - books and equipment - $2,175

Wild Card: $1,450

* unused portion of homestead to $10,825 may be applied to any property

**ALL FEDERAL EXEMPTIONS CAN BE DOUBLED IF YOU ARE MARRIED FILING A JOINT BANKRUPTCY**

NOTE: These are just the major Federal bankruptcy exemptions, effective April 1, 2010.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So........ You use the homestead exemption to subtract your home's 4k equity. Nothing to do with the wild-card exemption.

Then, since you have $10,825 EACH left UNUSED in the homestead exemption (this is what turns into the additional federal 'wild-card') you can exempt items totaling up to the amount of $21,650.

$21,650 - $11,500 (mom's house) - $4,500 (boat) - $1,200 (son's car) = $4,450 of exemptions left to use for cash in the bank or your car's equity or anything!

[murphsmom]

YAY!

Emailed the attorney, will see what he has to say about this, but I for the life of me cannot think of anything that would prohibit us from using the federal exemptions.

Oh, and we're expecting a $4500 tax return for our 2009 taxes that were filed incorrectly, due around the time we expect to file, so it looks like we can exempt that too!!!!

Pray for me, peoples! It really hit me hard today, when I thought that I couldn't file, how dire our situation really is. I was afraid to file, but then when I thought I couldn't file, I was even more afraid.

You all are worth your weight in gold. Thank you!

[tobee43]

i'm so glad it is working out for you!!!!!! and i'm sooooooooo glad you read the post referring to whether you chose to use the "federal" or ny exemptions.... it makes a differences doesn't it?...LOL!!!)

tobee43: i would be extra careful not to guess or suggest what a trustee would or would not determine for anyone.;)

i would also, carefully suggest you re-read this poor OP's posts and see she has decided not to file bk. also, she never mentioned if she was going to file state or federal which is an option in her state. that would determine her exemption limits.

just a "general thought".....i really do wonder many times where people get their information, i know we all have our sources, however, there are court procedures and legal processes to everything in the country, or this country...for it's citizens.... and many times even depends on the state you live in. tread lightly as we can all learn by others who really did go to law school or did, really experience the same or similar situation.

and,i'm so happy that you didn't give up! and asked the right questions!!! YES!!!!!!!!!

[murphsmom]

Thanks Tobee! Not 100% certain yet, still want to talk to the attorney to make sure there aren't any weird loopholes in my State. I'll keep ya posted.

Total roller coaster...

[BKAttyMI]

Not to burst your bubble, but I would be uncomfortable filing a case like this. A trustee can easily argue you own a 1/3 share of the property and attempt to collect, despite any arguments presented here. You can not use your husband's portion of the exemptions to exempt property you own by yourself. Furthermore, since you're a joint owner of this property, the other owners (your mom and sister) should be notified of the bankruptcy proceeding should you file.

[LostItAll2]

I read through this thread and it's a bit confusing. I do agree with Tobee43's view and Des. But, I agree very much with BKAttyMI, that this case would be or could potentially be a problem, where as was previously stated the possibility of the mother and sister being put into a position of having to buy back the OP's interest and the trustee making this an asset case.

[tobee43]

i just really hope it works out for the op...one way or another.

it's hard when there is a glitch and i'm sure many of us have gone through the bumpy road of a bk...they aren't all so cut and dry, unfortunately. i just wish the OP the best of luck with this situation.