Update: And odd car situation question

[olivies]

Hearing on setting a bar date was last week. Judge set a proof of claim date for 4/14. UST motion to dismiss hearing extended to May 5th. (We filed June 2010).

Our attorney is doing this as a test, to see what unsecured creditors file claims. If we convert to a 13, do creditors get another chance to file a claim or is this the only chance?

So now I'm guessing my mom has to file a proof of claim to her own vehicle, that she financed thru her credit union in her name only and is registered in her name only?? She lives in CT, we live in FL. She has a loan on it, she pays the loan, we pay her. The car is titled and registered and insured in her name. We pay insurance & registration renewal and all maintenance and have complete sole access to the vehicle since we are 1300 miles apart. On the means test, the UST had us list the $305 payment a month for ownership expenses, and we listed her as a creditor.

It gets trickier. My 18yo was in a car accident and his car was totaled. He'll be getting a check from the insurance that could pay off 75% of the car loan on my mom's car. We're thinking about letting him buy the car from her, and we would make up the 25% difference (about 5 months more of payments is what that amounts to). He needs a car. We want out of that stupid car payment. It's a win-win that way. My mom would sign the title of the car over to him at that point. So....IF our case gets converted to a 13, and we have to start a 6 month look back again, does this show as preferential payment or transfer of property? My son would end up paying more on the car, it would go right from her name to his. Legally, it's not my property or my debt in the first place. It's an odd situation, but I'm trying to plan ahead for "what if".

[tobee43]

wow olivies...you have been through the mill......it's been going on for you what seems to be so long..

i'm just hoping for your sake they do it already....whatever it is...so you can move on!

be careful about making any preferential payments that could come back to bite you...

[dontburnthep]

No advice just support and complete shock that your hearing date is almost a full YEAR from filing. This is not have the process is supposed to go.

[olivies]

No advice just support and complete shock that your hearing date is almost a full YEAR from filing. This is not have the process is supposed to go.

No kidding. Especially since I'm a no asset case, right. So in other words- "you have nothing we want or value to sell, but we still think you may have enough cash coming in but we're not sure enough so we'll just keep. draggin. it. out."

So let's think this out a bit. If it gets dismissed, and I don't file for 13 I am screwed. Because not only will I still owe the IRS and student loan- which I would anyways- but I'll be open game for the unsecureds again.

But the real killer is our credit union car loan. We are not redeeming or reaffirming in our filing. The truck is an 06, the loan has a 28K balance on it, give or take. A year ago the dealer valued the vehicle at 10K. A year ago. Since then, both motors for the front windows have quit working, one fell off the track so DH propped it up from inside the door panel with a piece of 2x4 (because it's $500 to fix), the AC is dead ($2k to fix). So the vehicle value is probably less than 10K now. And we haven't paid on it since April of 2010. If we dismiss, the credit union can demand over a year's worth of payments (at $672/month) immediately. Which of course we don't have, so they would repo, and sell, and we would be on the hook for nearly the full balance of the loan but not have a vehicle to show for it. So it's not like 2-3 months after filing we're being dismissed and there's some salvaging that can be done. We are so so so so screwed at this point.

[dontburnthep]

So it's not like 2-3 months after filing we're being dismissed and there's some salvaging that can be done. We are so so so so screwed at this point.

Oh my gosh I hadn't even considered this but you're absolutely right. The longer they drag it out, the further behind you get almost forcing you into a 13.

[olivies]

Oh my gosh I hadn't even considered this but you're absolutely right. The longer they drag it out, the further behind you get almost forcing you into a 13.

Not to mention that had the case been dismissed months ago, and we gave up the vehicle voluntarily, it would have left us on the hook for less than if it were to happen now because the loan value isn't changing but the vehicle's value is still depreciating.

[ValleYum]

Sorry if I missed something - but why can't you just give them back the truck (if your 7 completes) - wouldn't you be off the hook for the balance then?

And (I doubt it but I will ask anyway) is there any recourse for what this has put you through?

[olivies]

Sorry if I missed something - but why can't you just give them back the truck (if your 7 completes) - wouldn't you be off the hook for the balance then?

Yes, that is what we are planning on doing. However, the UST has filed a POA and a motion to dismiss, but hasn't made up their minds yet whether it's appropriate or not. If they do feel it's appropriate, that where we would be in a royal mess with the truck.

And (I doubt it but I will ask anyway) is there any recourse for what this has put you through?

You mean legally?? No. The UST rep is completely within her rights and duties to drag this out as long as necessary. I'm sure if we asked a judge to deny any further extensions it would then be taken up as a matter for the judge to decide. But if she's requesting time, as long as I or my attorney doesn't object, he judge has no reason to do anything other than grant it.

I'm hoping my attorney is worth the $ and is doing what is best.

[ValleYum]

Yes, that is what we are planning on doing. However, the UST has filed a POA and a motion to dismiss, but hasn't made up their minds yet whether it's appropriate or not. If they do feel it's appropriate, that where we would be in a royal mess with the truck.

You mean legally?? No. The UST rep is completely within her rights and duties to drag this out as long as necessary. I'm sure if we asked a judge to deny any further extensions it would then be taken up as a matter for the judge to decide. But if she's requesting time, as long as I or my attorney doesn't object, he judge has no reason to do anything other than grant it.

I'm hoping my attorney is worth the $ and is doing what is best.

Okay, I understand about the truck then. I have been hoping every time I see you post that you have heard from the UST.

I understand about the UST's rights and duties - but seriously, there needs to be some kind of limit to the number of extensions or something.

I will keep my fingers crossed and send good karma your way. I truly hope you get this figured out soon!

[SunshineGal]

Ho Olivies,

I'm not an attorney - just thinking out loud here, maybe one of the other FL members will chime in. But, IF the UST was to force you into a 13, couldn't you elect to keep the truck, do a cram down to fair market value, the truck loan would be secured so that money would go to the tuck first, and the repairs would be an allowable expense?

On a side note, every time I read your posts I feel so bad for what you have to go through. Wishing you the best of luck and hang in there!

SG

PS - found this, not sure if it will help, but just in case.

http://www.bankruptcyorlando.com/2009/11/debtor-can-cram-down-loan-for-wifes-car-purchased-within-910-days-of-filing-chapter-13.html