Confused about medical and dental work

[StrawberrySu]

On Cathy Moran's website, Bankruptcy Mastery, in a blog entitled "means Test and the Exemption See Saw" she writes:

"Note that current year tax obligations, projected medical or dental treatment, delinquent support, and priority taxes are all expenses that are deductible on the means test. Thus, if you pay those expenses down to consume cash, you reduce the deductions from current monthly income. You may be solving the exemption problem but creating a positive number on B-22."

Does she mean if you don't need to spend down cash, you could take a large expense like postponed dental work, and expense it on your Schedule J? If so, how would you divide it up - over a 12 month period? If you have a quote in hand for $6000 worth of dental work, over a year, that would be $500 a month on your schedule J. Or is this just wishful thinking? Can't find anything to address this specifically on the net.

[AngelinaCat]

SS, I am not familiar with this person or her website, so cannot offer an opinion there.

But are you or one of your family members in need of these services? You have to take care of your health.

I would need some more details in order to advise further.

Good luck.

[debee]

Cathy Moran is talking about form B22 (Means Test) and saying if you have alot of cash you can't exempt, be careful how you spend it down because if you get all your dental treatment (or whatever) done with it, then you lose the opportunity to claim that dental as an extra means test expense.

You can claim necessary dental on schedule J and spread it over the year. Just be prepared to document the expense. The problem with your $500/mth idea is that after that year is up, you'd have $500 per month to repay your creditors. You could still end up in a 13 with a paltry first year, but a hefty 2-5 in creditor payments.

[StrawberrySu]

Cathy Moran is talking about form B22 (Means Test) and saying if you have alot of cash you can't exempt, be careful how you spend it down because if you get all your dental treatment (or whatever) done with it, then you lose the opportunity to claim that dental as an extra means test expense.

You can claim necessary dental on schedule J and spread it over the year. Just be prepared to document the expense. The problem with your $500/mth idea is that after that year is up, you'd have $500 per month to repay your creditors. You could still end up in a 13 with a paltry first year, but a hefty 2-5 in creditor payments.

So everything in J needs to be a regular, ongoing expense? Or for how many years would it need to be to justify using the expense on there? I was actually probably being conservative on the dental, we have 6 crowns needed, a bridge, and a partial plate. We have dental insurance, but it doesn't cover these things. If the dentist gave a large quote, could you average it out over the next three years? Or does it need to be five years?

If that is the case, then I am confused about things like calculating auto repairs, tires, etc for your automobile expense on the J. You aren't going to need to do these things every year.

I guess I am wondering why in the world this all has to be so confusing? Why can't there just be easy instructions so everyone knows at least the basics? Us newbies have twenty million questions, and if the basics were spelled out plainly for all to see, on our bankruptcy government forms, we would only be bothering you old pros (not that you are old!) with strange, it could only happen to me questions! At the very least attorneys should know evertyhing and they don't seem to! Okay, rant over.

[StrawberrySu]

SS, I am not familiar with this person or her website, so cannot offer an opinion there.

But are you or one of your family members in need of these services? You have to take care of your health.

I would need some more details in order to advise further.

Good luck.

In my book taking care of your health is one thing, going to the dentist is akin to torture. I am one of those people who have to be driven there and driven home because I am so terrified! It has basically taken bankruptcy to force me to go, as sad as that sounds. I will do it for my financial health, but not for my health heath. I still need to be driven, tho.....

[StrawberrySu]

SS, I am not familiar with this person or her website, so cannot offer an opinion there.

But are you or one of your family members in need of these services? You have to take care of your health.

I would need some more details in order to advise further.

Good luck.

Oh, I forgot to tell you, the Cathy Moran site is basically for newbie BK attorneys, she writes a blog telling them things to be aware of. Lots of info there for a newbie filer as a lurker as well.

[CoBelle]

I think the 'making it confusing'is deliberate,but then I am jaded.
It seems that if you spread the dental out for 3 years, then after that, you may find something else re health expenses or your income may drop, so while you need to plan for it, seems like you should do it now and then put it on your worry list for 3 years down the word.

I have a question tho....I had to quick file a 7 when a 13 was dismissed and didn't get to 'spend' my cash in the bank on the day I filed. It is supposed to be exempt anyway (alimony) BUT if it was then spent on health and living expenses during the month following, would the trustee ...if she could somehow un-exempt the alimony...TAKE it?What if it aint dere no more?

[debee]

So everything in J needs to be a regular, ongoing expense? Or for how many years would it need to be to justify using the expense on there? Or does it need to be five years?

The dental expense is definitely justified and you can include it. The risky bit is that it's a large monthly expense that won't be ongoing. You won't need 5 crowns every year. So, depending on the rest of your expenses and your overall case, it could be a problem.

The car maintenance expenses you describe sound 'standard'. You'll have those expenses for the life of the car. You don't spend it every month, but you have to budget for it because it's coming and will keep coming. You'll always need the oil changed and the tune-up, etc.