who has had a credit card bank fight a discharge and won? why?

[Babybear]

Please tell me why you did not get a discharge on a particular credit card or medical debt? I am less interested in mortgage debt or car loan debt but any stories of debts not discharged due to earnings, fraud, or any other reasons would help me understand this process better and what to be aware of.

again thank you for your help
Debbie

[SunshineGal]

Hi Debbie,

Take a look through the AP section of this forum and you'll see some of the stories.

SG

[Babybear]

Thanks for telling me what an ap is and where to find it on the forum. This is all new to me. I will read through those threads and find similiar info to my situation. One other question I have is if I stop paying most of my cards now and try to wait it out for 6 months and someone sues me than will I have time to file the bk before they get a judgement or is there another tactic I should take to prevent a judgement or lien from occuring? is the lien against the person or their property or both? If its from an unsecured credit card debt. Will most creditors just send these debts to collection companies who harrass and scare people but dont file lawsuits? How do you know who or when a suit may occur?

[BrokeinMD]

Hi Babybear - The timeframe varies from bank to bank, and probably state to state, too. I quit paying my credit cards and LOC, all with the big boys, Citi, Chase, and Bank of America in May, 2010, and didn't have money to file until October 2010. Chase called incessantly after the 1st two months I missed payments, BOA sent me a couple of emails, but the only one who ever sent me to collection was Citi, and I received that notice one day after I filed, but they didn't bother me after that letter because at that point, the Automatic Stay was in effect. Do you care to ellaborate on what you're worried about, in particular?

[Babybear]

well I can accept the fact that the credit score will be ruined. I can accept having the bk on record. I can accept not having or using any more cards for a long time. I am only worried about the house and about any liens that would effect the equity. I did do some research and it should be exempt in both Ca. and new york depending on when we file. Since my mother lived in new york prior to 2 years. I am also worried about creditors disputing the bk and not getting rid of all the debt as well as any charges of fraud and what they can do to me or my mother in that regard. I dont understand the laws like many of you on here seem to. So I guess I am scared of the unknown.

[BrokeinMD]

If you click on the Exemptions Tab on the top of this forum, you can check out the exemptions for each State, too. I remember your earlier posts. Your case is a little complicated since your expenses are intertwined with your mothers, and you're both not in the same state. Your best bet is to get a free consult with a BK attorney to review the options with you.

[Babybear]

we are both in California and live together. I take care of her. She is 82. I have power of attorney for her and handle the shopping and the bills. I just hope she can answer questions at the hearing since I am sure all this will be a bit hard for her to fully understand in terms of giving the right responses. My issue was with which exemptions are to be used. The attorney here in Ca. said that it would be the New York Exemptions since she lived there prior to 2 years, prior to moving to Ca. and buying the house we now live in. So I am assuming that the new york exemptions apply to the California house, but many of the attorneys seemed so unfamiliar with doing that type of BK and they all seemed to want more money for research. Isn't this type of thing common? Has anyone here had a similiar situation?

[BrokeinMD]

Your situation is complicated and is not common. You may want to consult with an estate attorney, as well. Your mother assigned you as POA to take care of her expenses and affairs to the best of your ability. Since she is now in a position of financial hardship, you may want to seek out relinquishing your POA duty to another family member or trusted person to help her sort it out. Good luck to both of you.

[debee]

I think you have to be living in NY at the time you file in order to use their exemptions. You & your Mom would use the federal exemptions. You can poke around this website for more info: http://www.exemptionsexpress.com/index.html

[Babybear]

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$CVP5206$$ @TXCVP05206+&LIST=SEA4+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=180 78244+&TARGET=VIEW

I like this link better but it doesnt say if you can apply these exemptions to property in California

[Babybear]

http://thismatter.com/money/credit/bankruptcy/chapter-7/homestead-exemption.htm

This is also a really good link and says that if you didnt live in Ca. for 2 years before filing bk than use where you lived for 180 days prior to that. So again does that mean I can use the new york homestead exemptions for the property in Ca. ? Why is it so hard to find out this answer. The attorney doesnt know and no attorneys in New york responded to my emails.

[debee]

You have to be domiciled in NY to use their exemptions. (You can read this fact on the website I linked to in my previous post).

You have to have been in CA for two years to use theirs.

So in your case, your only option is to use the the Federal Exemptions.

Either that or wait until you've been in CA long enough (to use CA exemptions) before filing.

Good luck to you.

[Babybear]

ok I am confused. This is what I have read in a few articles

Under the new bankruptcy legislation, you will not be able to exempt more than $125,000 on equity in a residence purchased within 1,215 days (or three years and four months) before filing for bankruptcy.

would that be considered the federal exemption you are referring to because I cant seem to see the flow chart indicated on the link you sent me.

[debee]

The federal homestead exemption is only $21,625. The max of $125K applies if a person is using state exemptions - for instance if someone moves to a state with an unlimited homestead exemption and buys a 10 million dollar mansion and then files bk two years later. Only 125K would be exempt.

The federal exemption amounts changed last April and a lot of websites have outdated info. This one seems to be updated: http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/laws/ You have to scroll to the very bottom to get the federal list.

[tcreegan]

Hi Babybear,

debee has it right, NY requires you to actually be in the state to use their exemptions. You can't use CA exemptions until you have been there 2 years. In between you use the federal exemptions. This might not be good news.....under federal exemptions you can only protect $21,625 of equity in your house. If you wait 2 years, you can use the CA senior citizen $150,000 exemption.

To help ease your worries some.....the credit card companies aren't going to get a lien against the house. At least not anytime soon.

First they send letters, courtesy calls, then more threatening calls and letters, and finally turn it over to a collection agency. Now the collection agency goes through the whole process again. Now they might file a lawsuit. You or your attorney do a simple few steps and delay the lawsuit for 6 months to a year. If you file BK during this process, the case gets dismissed. If you don't file BK, they still have to win the lawsuit. Once they do, they have options: garnish wages, levy bank accounts, put a lien on property. To do any of these things, they have to go back to court and get permission (you can delay this process too) Then finally they get around to placing a lien on your property, following a technical set of guidelines which if they don't follow they have to back and do it over again.

So it is relatively easy to delay the credit card people out past your BK filing date. And then they go away for good.

Medical debt is no different than any other unsecured debt. Lump them in with the credit card peope.

If you get called for fraudulent charges, the creditor will file an AP in the court. This costs money, so they are'nt going to object unless you have 4 figure number or higher. And how long ago were the charges, that sort of thing factors in.

Well, getting late, must sign off, hope what I wrote is somewhat sensible.....

Tom in Colo