Finally ready to see a BK lawyer for my near future Ch 7- Any advice or suggestions?

[illlitius]

Its been months since I've looked into BK as an option for my situation. I've been reading the forums, reading articles, books (Nolo) etc. I am planning to finally see an attorney. (Q1) Any advice or suggestions about what I should discuss or ask him?
Is there anything I shouldn't discuss with him?

I've mapped out my credit card usage patterns, purchases, and everything that I believe to be related to my Ch 7 case (cc statement summaries, my financial situation, how I accumulated this debt etc etc.)

I have very limited funds (under $150), and I know that I can't retain a BK attorney at this point, but I do have a car I can sell to retain his services.

My goal is to:
1) present to him my bk case and all the relavant facts and
2) *find out if my bk case has a good probabily of successful discharge

If he tells me that I have a really good shot at a successful discharge, I plan to sell my car to pay for my BK Ch7 expenses including lawyer fees. (I am also planning to let my purchases age 6-12 months before filing)

(Q2) Is this a good plan?
(Q3) Is it a bad idea to tell him I don't have any money right now? (I will however tell him about selling my car if he believes he can successfully discharge my debt)

Thanks in advance.

[keepmine]

I'd suggest you tell him everything. He can't represent you to the best of his ability if he doesn't know the whole story.
If bk is a realistic option, stop paying all debt that you are going to discharge.

[tcreegan]

Hi illlitius,

...I think I posted this in your other thread, but if not, here it is:

Communication: phone/email/face-to-face, secretary/paralegal/attorney, turnaround time on responses
Organizaton/work ethic: dot all i's, cross all t's or 'good enough,' document filed ASAP or 'before the deadline'
Competence: know the local trustees, judges, filed cases like yours, up-to-date on relevant court rulings
Retainer/Fee: exactly what is covered, what is extra, what to expect as 'extra'

Take in your numbers and see what they say is a great plan. Don't need to hold anything back, they know folks are broke...they're filing BK afterall! Tell them your plan to get the money together, they might have other options to suggest.

Good luck to you, hope you get a winner!

Tom in Colo

[frogger]

Is there anything I shouldn't discuss with him?

You should discuss everything with your attorney. Your attorney can not properly represent you without a complete knowledge of the facts. Even if you have some financial secrets hiding in there, he needs to know......

[gmk]

I would look real hard at selling your car before you file because car ownership and expenses to maintain it are a significant part of both your means test and your I&J schedules for calculating disposable monthly income. If you own the car outright and you're close on the qualification numbers, perhaps a better plan would be to re-finance it. There has been some discussion in the threads on doing that. I would believe that you would need to do it well in advance of re-filing. The secured debt then could be discharged, with a repo likely or you could try to keep it with or without re-affirmation. In any event, vehicle expenses are usually critical in your pre-filing math.

[daylate]

In my experience, many of the attorneys I have spoken to have either given me wrong answers or not mentioned something that could have been very applicable to my case. Some perhaps because I didn't ask the question correctly others who knows. Knowing what I now know I would have delayed contacting them until I had done much more research on the whole process. I would have read the NOLO book much more thoroughly and I would have read through this forum in great detail. Lots of very smart and experienced people here. And when I was pretty sure I had a very good handle on things, I would draw up my list of questions and only then go see the attorneys. Good luck.

[discouraged]

I finally chose my attorney because he was the only one who said he would try to get the filing fees dropped and because he spent over an hour with me and thorougly explained the process (I didn't let on that I knew a lot of it from this forum).

No other attorney said to make sure I emptied my bank account and only keep enough in to keep the account open. That was the very first thing he said to me. He also said I could sell some of my things (I have some tools which my neighbor would love to buy and I've been holding off) but, because I'm a paranoid (LOL) I'm not going to do anything until after the bk is done.

[illlitius]

Thank you all for your responses, they are very helpful.

....Communication: phone/email/face-to-face, secretary/paralegal/attorney, turnaround time on responses
Organizaton/work ethic: dot all i's, cross all t's or 'good enough,' document filed ASAP or 'before the deadline'
Competence: know the local trustees, judges, filed cases like yours, up-to-date on relevant court rulings
Retainer/Fee: exactly what is covered, what is extra, what to expect as 'extra' ...

Tom thank you for this useful guide.

[illlitius]

In my experience, many of the attorneys I have spoken to have either given me wrong answers or not mentioned something that could have been very applicable to my case. Some perhaps because I didn't ask the question correctly others who knows.

This is just plain awful . I really want to avoid these type of attorneys. The attorney I plan on seeing has good avvo ratings, perfect 10 and most of his clients gave him good ratings so I hope I can trust their ratings system.

... Knowing what I now know I would have delayed contacting them until I had done much more research on the whole process. I would have read the NOLO book much more thoroughly and I would have read through this forum in great detail. Lots of very smart and experienced people here. And when I was pretty sure I had a very good handle on things, I would draw up my list of questions and only then go see the attorneys. Good luck.

Daylate, thank you for sharing your experiences .

When you say that you would have researched more into the forums/nolo book before initially contacting your attorney, can you elaborate? What was critical for you to know before talking to your lawyer? Anything specific?

Or did you mean something more general like understanding the entire BK process?

[daylate]

The more you know the more you can ask intelligent questions. Subjects that I received inconsistent,wrong or incomplete info included things like whether selling your stuff was considered income (unless you made a profit probably not), is an ira distribution income for the means test(it is), are social security benefits exempt(yes),can you take distributions from your IRA after you file but before discharge (still not sure on this one), which exemptions to use if I move(when and where you move can effect this). There are probably a few more but these come to mind. In general, the more you know, the better you can evaluate your attorney.
Again get a general idea of how this process works then identify things that are specific to you and research those questions here and elsewhere. Then ask your questions to prospective attorneys.
And Tom's advice is great for the general procedural things you need to consider.
Good luck.

[illlitius]

I would look real hard at selling your car before you file because car ownership and expenses to maintain it are a significant part of both your means test and your I&J schedules for calculating disposable monthly income. If you own the car outright and you're close on the qualification numbers, perhaps a better plan would be to re-finance it. There has been some discussion in the threads on doing that. I would believe that you would need to do it well in advance of re-filing. The secured debt then could be discharged, with a repo likely or you could try to keep it with or without re-affirmation. In any event, vehicle expenses are usually critical in your pre-filing math.

GMK, I have $0 to almost no income right now, so selling my car should not matter as my income is too low?
(However the household income is over $100K but I don't receive any of it so this also should not matter? I live with other household members, I am not married)

[illlitius]

The more you know the more you can ask intelligent questions. Subjects that I received inconsistent,wrong or incomplete info included things like whether selling your stuff was considered income (unless you made a profit probably not), is an ira distribution income for the means test(it is), are social security benefits exempt(yes),can you take distributions from your IRA after you file but before discharge (still not sure on this one), which exemptions to use if I move(when and where you move can effect this). There are probably a few more but these come to mind. In general, the more you know, the better you can evaluate your attorney.
Again get a general idea of how this process works then identify things that are specific to you and research those questions here and elsewhere. Then ask your questions to prospective attorneys.
And Tom's advice is great for the general procedural things you need to consider.
Good luck.

Daylate, thank you again for another informative post. (I did a lot of more reading today and learned a lot thanks to your first post ;) )

Okay 1 more last thing, you said that selling your stuff wasn't considered income unless there is profit. This started to get me thinking again and if its okay with you I had another followup question:

If I sold my car for $5000 when it was purchased for me years ago for > $5000, this would then not be considered income rt? And if I invested $5K (through my business) and received back $5K, that too would not be considered income rt? (I am pretty sure I lost all my investments as to why I am in this mess but I still would like to know just in case)

And if I received $5000 from my car, or a return on investment with $0 profit, what would this be considered if its not income? can I use this money freely? Or do I have to watch everything I purchase (and only purchase necessity items) since I am going to file in the near future?

[daylate]

I believe the situation you describe is not income. Proceeds are best used for essential day to day living expenses and "normal" splurges-or a few meals out or a show probably ok-5k cruise week before you file-not so likely to be viewed favorably by a trustee.

Not sure about putting the 5k in your business. Depending on the kind of business you have (corp,LLC,s-corp,sole prop) and the assets and liabilities it has your situation could be a lot more complicated. Need to speak with an attorney about that part (and probably all parts) because so much varies from trustee to trustee. state to state, district to district. Also keep in mind that the vast majority of us who post here are not attorneys and as such none of this is legal advice. Just a transference of knowledge we (think we) have.