Stupid Liquidation/assest question

[brighteyes]

I've looked on here and all over the web, and I'm probably not 'asking' the right question to get the answer I'm looking for.

When listing the liquidation value of items, and I know you list everything, but is everything down to 6 pairs of underwear, 5 shirts, 3 pairs of socks, ect. Or is it a value of mens clothing = this price? This goes for everything, down to the exact amount of spoons, forks, and knives. I'm assuming I don't have to get that detailed, but if I do, it's gonna be a LONG couple of days.

We also have a few high ticket items and I'm trying very hard to do the right thing and list them, but they were gifts. DH has a Rolex that he got 5 years ago as his 10 years at a company gift. It's not a super expensive one (relatively speaking). He also has baseball cards LOTS of them, from when he was little. Many of them are un-opened so really the value is unclear. He could have a high priced rookie card for all we know.

TIA, and I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I just couldn't find the answer I was looking for.

[hopeforus]

think of garage sale prices and no you don't have to list everything individually. That would take forever and would be ridiculous. I doubt any trustee wants to read over individual entries for tons of spoons :lol: Just lump it together. I did "small kitchen appliances- ___" stuff like that. I think our form just said kitchen honestly. Then listed bigger things separate.

[Pandora]

We also have a few high ticket items and I'm trying very hard to do the right thing and list them, but they were gifts. DH has a Rolex that he got 5 years ago as his 10 years at a company gift. It's not a super expensive one (relatively speaking). He also has baseball cards LOTS of them, from when he was little. Many of them are un-opened so really the value is unclear. He could have a high priced rookie card for all we know.

Doesnt matter if they were gifts or not - disclose EVERYTHING else you risk problems down the road.

As to listing everything - it really depends on your area. We had to list everything and include how many of each thing we had (i.e., dvds, cd's, games for PS / Wii, toys for our son, etc), clothing was generalized however shoes, ties, purses, etc had to be a number of each. Was a PITA needless to say...

[brighteyes]

WHEW! Listing EVERYTHING would have been a PIA! and quite frankly don't have the time for that, although it would be great for insurance purposes! I might actually find things that have been lost for years

I will be listing the rolex, we are doing federal exemptions, so it will be covered. And as for the Baseball cards, you can't put a price on it if you don't know what it is

[debee]

Baseball cards are collectibles. Same with comic books, antique toys, etc. The trustee is looking for assets and they know what to look for. If you list baseball cards and put some value down, I would expect to be asked how you arrived at that value. Just something to be aware of going in.

[brighteyes]

okay, so back to the rolex. They hold their value very well, so do I put the full price, or would I take a percentage off? I really don't want to have the trustee question any of our assets. As far as the baseball cards I'll go to a local shop and see what they are selling them for and what they buy them for. Maybe the guy will give me an estimate, if I were to sell them to him.

[debee]

Which system of exemptions are you using? If you use system 1 you have close to 7k you can exempt in jewelry & heirlooms, etc.

There was a time when you could get a new rolex at costco for around 1k. I definitely wouldn't list the value as new. If it was personally engraved, it's worth even less than an otherwise comparable used. You could check pawn shop prices and/or craigslist used values.

[brighteyes]

I haven't quite figured out what exemptions we are using. While we live in Cali, we have only been here 1.25 years. Prior to that we were in AZ. But I don't think I can take AZ exemptions unless I'm a physical resident of the state. So then I'm guessing I am taking federal. I have talked to numerous attorneys and none of them seem to know the answer. I have check a few websites from here and they all say federal, so I hope I'm assuming correctly.

[Pandora]

I haven't quite figured out what exemptions we are using. While we live in Cali, we have only been here 1.25 years. Prior to that we were in AZ. But I don't think I can take AZ exemptions unless I'm a physical resident of the state. So then I'm guessing I am taking federal.

I have talked to numerous attorneys and none of them seem to know the answer. I have check a few websites from here and they all say federal, so I hope I'm assuming correctly.

If you've talked to several attorneys about which states' exemptions you must use and they dont know the answer to that..then find a new attorney and fast.

AZ does not allow for Federal Exemptions.


Here are the new rules that apply to exemptions for everything but a home, per NOLO :

IF you have not lived in California for at least two years...

Then, which state did you consider to be your domicile two years ago?

(If more than one state, choose the state in which you lived most for the six months ending two years ago from this date.)

* If you have lived or made your residence in your current state for at least two years, you can use that state’s exemptions.

* If you have lived or made your residence in your current state for more than 91 days but less than two years, you must use the exemptions of the state where you lived for the better part of the 180-day period immediately prior to the two-year period preceding your filing.

* If you have lived or made your residence in your current state for fewer than 91 days, you’ll need to wait until you have lived there for at least 91 days before you can file (and then use whatever exemptions are available to you according to the rules set out above).

* If the state you are filing in offers a choice between the state and federal bankruptcy exemptions, you can use the federal exemption list regardless of how long you’ve been living in the state.

* If these rules deprive you of the right to use any state’s exemptions, you can use the federal exemption list. For example, some states allow their exemptions to be used only by current state residents, which might leave former residents who haven’t lived in their new home state for at least two years without any available state exemptions.

A longer residency requirement applies to homestead exemptions: If you acquired a home in your current state within the 40 months before you file for bankruptcy (and you didn’t purchase it with the proceeds from selling another home in that state), your homestead exemption will be subject to a cap of $125,000, even if the state homestead exemption available to you is larger. For detailed information on homestead exemptions, see Ch. 4.

NOTE - a potential 'Catch 22': In some states, exemption rules can only be used by a resident, or if you have your "domicile" there. But the federal rule says you must use the state you moved away from. So.... IF your former state's exemption laws, for which you may "qualify" under the federal formula, do not apply to non-residents -- then your your answer gets more complicated.

You can find out all exemptions for both states here: http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankrup...php?ST=CA#Help

[brighteyes]

NOTE - a potential 'Catch 22': In some states, exemption rules can only be used by a resident, or if you have your "domicile" there. But the federal rule says you must use the state you moved away from. So.... IF your former state's exemption laws, for which you may "qualify" under the federal formula, do not apply to non-residents -- then your your answer gets more complicated.

And that "NOTE" is why I'm all confused! I'm a non-resident of Arizona since I don't live there any more, but I'm a resident of California. But I haven't lived here for 2 years for the exemption rule to take place. I need it to scream in big bold letters "If you do not physically reside in Arizona, then you can not claim any state exemptions. They must take the exemptions in their current state if they have lived there 2 years, if not then they take federal." All I have been getting is what you quoted. I've taken the "If these rules deprive you of the right to use any state’s exemptions, you can use the federal exemption list. For example, some states allow their exemptions to be used only by current state residents, which might leave former residents who haven’t lived in their new home state for at least two years without any available state exemptions." approach

[debee]

Sounds like you either go with the fed or defer filing until enough time has passed to use CA exemptions, whichever option is possible/best for you.

[daylate]

I just went through this exercise. Based on my understanding you will have to use federal exemptions. In order to use AZ you must be a resident when you file. So you can't use their's which is what you "should" use based on the 2 year requirement not being met to use California. I agree with debee's opinion as to what you should do. And I would definitely look for an attorney who can give you a definitive answer. Although I stumbled on to the answer myself as a result of another poster's thread and a bit of research. Good luck.

Edit: I found this site to be helpful http://exemptionsexpress.com/Alabama_to_Missouri.html