Listing the car as mine, when my husband has the loan? (And a few other questions)

[NewPage]

I was talking to my attorney's paralegal today, and she said that she is listing one of our vehicles as mine on the petition, even though the loan, etc is and always has been in my husband's name. I told her that (and said so at the get-go as well) but she says it is mine since I drive it. I said we both do; it's a family vehicle, not solely mine.

I suppose it doesn't really matter since we don't have equity in it (purchased new in 2007 for 22k, and we still owe 17k on it; I can't imagine that we would get more than that 17k selling to a private buyer!), but it kind of bugs me that it's being listed as "mine" when my name is not attached to it. Is that standard procedure?

These are things I'm going to ask my attorney too, but thought I would get info while I'm waiting for that appt, likely on Friday:

1- I am on the house loan and HELOC (we are current on both). My attorney told me that once I file, they will stop communication with me as far as sending statements and I think also maybe stop taking the withdrawal out for the HELOC payment.

However, since my husband is NOT filing, wouldn't they be sending that info to him, thus he (we) still receive statements and they make the withdrawal for the HELOC? The bank accounts are in his name only (have been since April 2010).

2 - Bank deposits to $7,500 are exempt in Oregon. I have 2 separate bank accounts, which have perhaps a combined value of $150. What I'm wondering about is my husband's accounts; one of them is his sole proprietor business account. Now, rarely is that over $7500 (especially for the past year; in fact I don't think it has been over that at all since some time in 2008). The court counts his assets, etc b/c he is the household support, right? I was thinking "Oh great, we are going to have to spend that down to nothing", but if I'm understanding correctly, as long as the combined accounts are less than $7500, that would be exempt?


I'm getting nervous, the closer I get to filing. When she told me today that she had it almost ready, I felt like I was going to hurl. Tell me I'm not alone there LOL. It's one thing to talk about it and pay the attorney and give the info, but we've kind of been in a holding pattern since December, and now that it's close, well, I'm a little scared/freaked out. I'm not hiding any assets or income or anything, so really I have no reason to be scared, other than, you know -- it's kind of a big deal, legally speaking. Other than small claims court years ago, I've no experience with court stuff so it's a bit daunting to think of the 341 and such.

Thank you to everyone here who has answered questions and all over my time here. I can't wait to join the discharged and closed group!

[daylate]

As to the car-if its not your debt and you are not on the title I don't see how you can list it as yours-it's not-its his. I'd make sure you ask the attorney. And you can't surrender it-it's not yours. Turn the tables a bit and think suppose it was paid for-you list it-trustee says give it to me or buy it back-you then say "No can do-its not mine" I think this paralegal is wrong. On the expense side if you pay for gas, etc then I would think you could list that but not ownership.
Let us know how this plays out.

[NewPage]

What you say totally makes sense to me. And my husband, as the sole bread winner, pays for everything when it comes to the vehicle or anything else. So the payments, the maintenance, repairs, gas, insurance, all of it - he pays it. (Speaking of insurance, I am listed as a driver, so I don't know if that matters or not. Then again, we will have to list our children as drivers too when the time comes, and they won't own the vehicles as a result, so....)


Edited to add: When I was talking to her, she said she was trying to decide how to list it, and mentioned it as possibly "personal property". WTF?




I hired my attorney; I wish I'd known I was hiring the para, b/c I may well have gone with someone else. She frustrates me.

[backtoschool]

Is your name on the title? If your name is not on the title or the loan, then the car is not yours for bankruptcy purposes.

[NewPage]

No, my name is not on the title OR the loan. Never has been, for either of our vehicles.

So far, you guys are affirming my thoughts. I felt like I was banging my head against the wall when talking to her today.

"But....it's not in my name."
"Well, it's yours, you drive it."
"We both drive it. It's the family vehicle. The loan is and always has been in his name."
"But it's yours."
"????"

[backtoschool]

If you are both filing bankruptcy it shouldn't be an issue. But if only you are filing bankruptcy, then the car is not your asset or your liability.

[NewPage]

It's just me filing.

[olivies]

Well, our situation is partially similar. We drive a car, it's financed in my mom's name and registered in her name. We have no legal right or ownership to this car at all. She makes the car payments. We send her money for the car payments. UST said we have to list it as our debt, our property, with her as the creditor. Makes no sense to me because if the car is totaled tomorrow, SHE gets the money. We could continue to send her the $, but if she chooses to stop paying for whatever reason the bank will repo it regardless of whether we sent her money. If I wanted to sell the car tomorrow, I couldn't because I have no legal right to the car. So how is this our debt and our property?

[Detroit]

I spent way more time talking to my attorney's paralegal than the attorney, and I wasn't always sure she knew exactly what she was talking about, either! But I got through it - although there were times I wish I'd insisted on speaking to the actual attorney. The paralegal was, however, very comforting and supportive. If you question what she's telling you, or your question isn't being thoroughly answered or the answer explained, I'd ask to talk to the attorney anyway. Mine would usually call the next day.

Anyway, I listed my husband's car (solely in his name) as an expense, as well as his gas and insurance (in both our names), as he was underemployed. I do, however, make all the payments. My attorney thought, if questioned by the trustee, she could argue that the expense was necessary to the overall function of the household. Without it, I had too much disposable income to justify a Ch 7.

It wasn't questioned and I only had to give my attorney a copy of his account statement showing the payment amount, just in case she needed it (she didn't).

I agree with the others - it's not technically your payment or your property and therefore couldn't be actually included in your filing, however, perhaps she's trying to bolster your expenses. Just check your paperwork carefully before you sign off!

[NewPage]

That confuses me, Detroit. Someone help me be less dense :-P

Bolstering my expenses -- don't the household expenses figure into this?

How exactly does this work -- I'm filing, and I am unemployed. Have been unemployed since June 2009. I am on the mortgage and HELOC, and have credit cards in my own name. The credit card debt is what is going into the BK, about 40k. I/we are keeping the house.

My husband's income (and expenses??) I know are considered in the monthly household income for BK purposes. In 2010, he grossed $52k for our family of six. Legalconsumer.com, for my zip and family size, says:

Avg. Monthly Income (past 6 months) $7,216 per month 6-Month Total: $43,297 12 month annualized: $86,593

The past 6 months' gross was 29k, a monthly average of $4833 -- so obviously I am passing the means test, based on his income. We do get food benefits of $626/month -- is that income? Roughing (very rough) our expenses, we come in over the pay gross, but just under the gross + food benefits. However, I did not subtract my husband's business expenses from that, so it's all very rough.

Lost my train of thought there, but just giving an idea of our numbers.

[NewPage]

I got the petition and schedules from the paralegal today (finally!). She lists the van as such, on the "Statement of Financial Affairs":

List all property owned by another person that the debtor holds or controls.
NAME AND
ADDRESS OF OWNER
DESCRIPTION AND
VALUE OF PROPERTY
LOCATION OF PROPERTY
Mr. NewPage
Address
2007 Honda Odyssey
$10,000.00 loan still owed in the
amount of $17,002.00
In Debtor's Possession

Why would she do that? Is it b/c of the 2 vehicles we have, I "have to" show a vehicle? She didn't put my husband's truck on there at all.

[NewPage]

This is the answer I got from my attorney today:

I think L___ told me the Honda is the car you drive? Title is merely an indication of ownership. I thought it was wise to at lease bring the vehicle to the attention of the trustee to avoid any appearance we hiding assets. The fact there is no equity in the vehicle makes it all moot anyway.

[tcreegan]

Hi NewPage,

I think L___ told me the Honda is the car you drive? Title is merely an indication of ownership. I thought it was wise to at lease bring the vehicle to the attention of the trustee to avoid any appearance we hiding assets. The fact there is no equity in the vehicle makes it all moot anyway.

Might have to give your attorney some love here....looks like they had your back after all!

Tom in Colo

[NewPage]

Yes, I agree. I wish his para had told me that to begin with! It was kind of what I was thinking, but I just needed to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak! ;-)