What is Bass & Associates up to these days? What's their new SOP?

[nekom]

Well they checked in with a notice of appearance in my case, but they did not show up at the 341 meeting (nobody did). I have read forum posts from here and elsewhere dating back to 2004 or so where they would basically try to pursue a purchase money security interest (PMSI) for their client post-discharge. I have also read more recent (2010ish) forum posts both here and elsewhere that they have been coming after people pre-discharge or even at the 341 meetings. What's their angle these days? And for that matter what's the real scoop on the legal implications of a PMSI in bankruptcy? I've looked all over the interwebs and all I get are conflicting reports. What I gather is that they circumvent the BK stay by not asking for money, but by asking for you to `voluntarily' surrender whatever items they claim they have this interest in (including in at least one post, I don't remember if it was here, a bag of candy.)

What's the real legal status of these PMSI agreements? I get that they are a bottom feeding scum sucker out to try to extort money, and I gather that they don't REALLY want you to surrender and items and probably won't even accept them. But I'm expecting to get some sort of a letter from them, since they checked in. I don't just ignore things, I don't think I've ever ignored a letter in my life. I know what my rights are, but what, if any, are theirs?

[DebtEnder]

Until they come knocking on your door with a court order asking for your used goods then ignore them. Unless you bought a 75" LED 3d tv before you filed there is NOTHING you got from them worth actual expense to get.

[tcreegan]

Hi nekom,

They probably quit the post-discharge action b/c they got hit with stay violations.

rights are, but what, if any, are theirs? ...if they can prove they have a secured claim, they can repossess their collateral if you don't reaffirm the debt.

The only legality I am aware of is that the financing needs to be through the seller, ie store card. If it is a Visa/MC not associated w/ the store, there is no PMSI

I don't just ignore things, I don't think I've ever ignored a letter in my life. ...always a first time.

If you really can't ignore a letter, the appropriate reply is that you are surrendering the collateral and they need to take the necessary steps to repossess the collateral. (motion for relief of stay, whatever your state laws dictate)

Good luck with it, let us know what you did and how it turned out?

Tom in Colo

[btbeme]

If Bass and Asses call/write/knock on the door, tell them to come get their junk. Recommend that they bring some paper towels and Windex to clean off the cat pee, cigar smoke, and your friend's "party stain" from that night he drank waaaay too much beer after eating all those oysters.

Frankly, as earlier posted, virtually nothing is worth their effort. The will make some noise, maybe a little effort, and probably nothing will happen. As my grandfather was famous for saying, "All hat and no cattle."

If they do make a demand, make sure to leave it on the back porch for them and let them know that the fresh air will likely do it some good.

[nekom]

Well my attorney said they sent reaffirmation papers. hahaha yeah we're not gonna do that.

They can't gum up the works over this, can they? I mean PMSI or not, the debt is dischargable. If they really want my used out of date electronics they're welcome to send someone to pick them up, or at least what I can find of them. I'm not going to go out of my way to locate items that may or may not exist and I'm certainly not going to waste fuel or postage bringing them anywhere for them. Do they really need a replevin from the court to execute on this alleged PMSI?

[tcreegan]

Hi nekom,

Yup, they need a writ of replevin and whatever else your state law requires. And that is on top of a motion for relief and trustee approval in the federal Bk court.

The costs of jumping through all the hoops costs more than the stuff is worth. Not profitable, that is why they never actually repossess stuff.

A few threatening letters steeped in legalese.....costs pennies and if 1 person in a hundred coughs up some cash, it is profitable. That is why they do the letter gig.

Basic economics....follow the money

Tom in Colo

[nceguyfromne]

Nekom, rest assured they won't gum up your case. They mail the same letter and file the same no-show appearance in virtually all BK cases. The debt is dischargeable and the PMSI is a contract matter between them and you. You agreed to it when you opened the charge account. True, like any technically "secured" property, the BK won't eliminate the lien on the physical property, but what they're banking on is you a) wanting to keep your stuff and b) being convinced that you have to pay for the privilege. In truth, they don't want your stuff. COULD they get a replevin and make you give it back? Sure. Will they? I think you've got a better chance of hitting the lotto. They are not in the business of losing money recovering peoples' used junk just to prove a point. For some, dangling that "PMSI" in front of them is enough to convince them to fork over some money to make it go away. If so, they've done their jobs.

It's up to you but I would just ignore them. Many people never hear from them again. Once you start communicating, they'll know they've got you worried and it may invite them to persist.

Good luck!

[nekom]

Well I told my attorney I have no intention whatsoever of reaffirming, they explained to me that in theory they could come after the stuff. I've seen many threads here and on other forums and consumer sites regarding these fine fellows and I haven't seen a single report of them ever actually repossessing property. So if they keep asking me to settle or voluntarily surrender items, I can safely ignore them? I know its unlikely but IF they get a court replevin then what? That isn't a judgment that leads to a public record is it? And then what would happen? Sheriff shows up and says give me x y and z items please, I say here you go sir and that's that? I'm just wondering how things would work IN THEORY if they really did want the junk even though all indications are that they in fact do not.

[Charlie777]

Before Sears sold their card business to Citibank they were famous (notorious) for this. They got in trouble with some BK courts for it.

[btbeme]

Ignore them. Your personal liability is gone with the BK discharge. You owe them nothing. Unless we are talking about several thousands of dollars worth of goods (in terms of resale, which is HIGHLY unlikely), they won't do anything but offgas. If you talk to them, they will never leave you alone. And if you DO have to talk to them because the Trustee says to (hugely unlikely), tell them to come get it - it is in the front yard and they better hurry because it is starting to rain!

No worries. They will spend a bunch on postage and nothing will come of it unless you volunteer you services in helping them.

[btbeme]

I'm just wondering how things would work IN THEORY if they really did want the junk even though all indications are that they in fact do not.

Thats is exactly the point. We are discussing theory. I'm not sure anyone here actually had anything happen unless they made thousands of dollars in recoverable charges immediately before BK. And if that were the case, the Trustee would be more than happy to claim it first. The chances of Bass and Asses, or anyone else, getting past the Trustee, the court, and the judge is about...zipola.

[nekom]

I fully expect them to send me something post-discharge. I have already drafted a letter because I simply CAN'T ignore things. I don't have it in me, I'm a letter writer by nature. What do you all think? To be sent CMRR of course.

Draft letter for PMSI (purchase money security interest) and bankruptcy, post discharge:

To whom it may concern:

I am in receipt of your letter dated DD Mon YYYY. With regards to your account #xxx-xxxxxxx. I reject your claim that either you or your client having a properly perfected purchase money security interest in any chattel that I may own or be in possession of. Furthermore, I can not in good faith give you the status on the whereabouts or condition of any of these items. Some may be in storage, others may have been casualties of a move, others may have been damaged, destroyed, sold, discarded or otherwise disposed of. To be quite honest, none of them are of any interest to me nor have I any interest in doing any sort of an audit to determine their status, as I have far more important things in my life.

What I can tell you with no degree of uncertainty is that the debt has been discharged in chapter 7 bankruptcy and your letter comes dangerously close to violating the permanent bankruptcy stay. Furthermore no attorney from your firm was present at the meeting of creditors per section 341 of the federal bankruptcy code. As you are no doubt aware I have declined to reaffirm any debt associated with this. As such, I consider this matter closed and I reject each and every one of your claims.

If you intend to pursue this matter, please consider this your formal warning that anybody operating on your behalf is not welcome on any properties owned by myself or my familly. Any such infractions will be considered criminal trespassing and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Any threats of violence on their part will be met with appropriate measures in accordance with all applicable laws and will also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and may result in civil litigation as well.

Should you pursue and obtain a writ of replevim, please contact me after you have done this so that we can arrange a date and time that is convenient for both parties. Also note that you will need to have a Sheriff with you. Anyone working on your behalf will need to have a valid writ of replevim as well as a Sheriff or other authorized law enforcement officer with them or they will absolutely not be permitted on the property. Should anyone working on your behalf show up with a sheriff and a writ of replevim, I will gladly surrender any such items that I have in my possession at that time.

Unless and until you obtain a writ of replevim, you will not contact me again. You are to consider this a refusal to pay, as the debt was discharged and no money is owed. You are also permitted to contact me to notify that you have closed this matter in your office and will pursue no further collection activities.

Your pal,
John Q. Debtor.

[btbeme]

I fully expect them to send me something post-discharge. I have already drafted a letter because I simply CAN'T ignore things. I don't have it in me, I'm a letter writer by nature. What do you all think? To be sent CMRR of course.

Draft letter for PMSI (purchase money security interest) and bankruptcy, post discharge:

To whom it may concern:

I am in receipt of your letter dated DD Mon YYYY. With regards to your account #xxx-xxxxxxx. I reject your claim that either you or your client having a properly perfected purchase money security interest in any chattel that I may own or be in possession of. You are to consider this a refusal to pay, as the debt was discharged and no money is owed. You are also permitted to contact me to notify that you have closed this matter in your office and will pursue no further collection activities.

Your pal,
John Q. Debtor.

I took the liberty of editing your response down to the basic points I feel would be most direct and pertinent.

The most basic rule of (legal) thumb, as I understand it, it not to do any homework for your adversary - let them do it themselves.

[nceguyfromne]

Nekom, theoretically speaking, anyone can sue you for almost anything and it would result in a judgment, public record, etc. You could be a month behind on your cell phone bill and the provider could, if they really wanted to, go after you for it in court. You could forward a sensitive work e-mail to your home e-mail address and your employer could go to court and get a writ of replevin to get it back. I once had a sheriff deliver a small claims summons to my house (for the previous homeowners) for an unpaid $60 dental bill. Obviously, that dentist was operating on principle. Yes, we live in a litigious society, but at the end of the day this company is a collection agency and they do what makes money. They are no longer entitled to your money thanks to your friend Chapter 7, so unless your used junk (nothing personal toward you, but that's what it is to them) is extremely valuable on the second-hand market, after a great deal of expense in obtaining it, or you willingly fork over some money to make them go away, they are out of luck.

Don't let the fact that they are a "law firm" trip you up. A lot of collection agencies operate as law firms. They have attorneys on staff, or access to them, and on rare occasions when there is profit to be made, they will take a case to court. The bulk of their business is done by people hired off the street to make phone calls and mail letters that convince nervous debtors that it's in their best interests to pay them money.

Ignore them and I can all but guarantee you'll never hear from them again, even after your discharge.

[ValleYum]

I fully expect them to send me something post-discharge. I have already drafted a letter because I simply CAN'T ignore things. I don't have it in me, I'm a letter writer by nature. What do you all think? To be sent CMRR of course.

Draft letter for PMSI (purchase money security interest) and bankruptcy, post discharge:

To whom it may concern:

I am in receipt of your letter dated DD Mon YYYY. With regards to your account #xxx-xxxxxxx. I reject your claim that either you or your client having a properly perfected purchase money security interest in any chattel that I may own or be in possession of. Furthermore, I can not in good faith give you the status on the whereabouts or condition of any of these items. Some may be in storage, others may have been casualties of a move, others may have been damaged, destroyed, sold, discarded or otherwise disposed of. To be quite honest, none of them are of any interest to me nor have I any interest in doing any sort of an audit to determine their status, as I have far more important things in my life.

What I can tell you with no degree of uncertainty is that the debt has been discharged in chapter 7 bankruptcy and your letter comes dangerously close to violating the permanent bankruptcy stay. Furthermore no attorney from your firm was present at the meeting of creditors per section 341 of the federal bankruptcy code. As you are no doubt aware I have declined to reaffirm any debt associated with this. As such, I consider this matter closed and I reject each and every one of your claims.

If you intend to pursue this matter, please consider this your formal warning that anybody operating on your behalf is not welcome on any properties owned by myself or my familly. Any such infractions will be considered criminal trespassing and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Any threats of violence on their part will be met with appropriate measures in accordance with all applicable laws and will also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and may result in civil litigation as well.

Should you pursue and obtain a writ of replevim, please contact me after you have done this so that we can arrange a date and time that is convenient for both parties. Also note that you will need to have a Sheriff with you. Anyone working on your behalf will need to have a valid writ of replevim as well as a Sheriff or other authorized law enforcement officer with them or they will absolutely not be permitted on the property. Should anyone working on your behalf show up with a sheriff and a writ of replevim, I will gladly surrender any such items that I have in my possession at that time.

Unless and until you obtain a writ of replevim, you will not contact me again. You are to consider this a refusal to pay, as the debt was discharged and no money is owed. You are also permitted to contact me to notify that you have closed this matter in your office and will pursue no further collection activities.

Your pal,
John Q. Debtor.

You write very well.

Missing a couple of commas here and there after introductory clauses.

Spelling error in paragraphs 4 and 5: It is replevin.

Spelling error in paragraph 3: family

Wishing you luck and success.