Had 341 meeting today and question...

[csonly]

We had our 341 meeting today, lasted less than 5 minutes and was painless, although I was very nervous. I read on another post (sticky) that the US Trustee has 10 days to see if we pass the means test and can dismiss? Can this really happen if they think your expenses are higher than average? Our means test by our lawyer was negative approx $150. I'm also confused about the next 30 and 60 day waiting periods, can anyone shed more light on this. I'm sure these questions have been asked before, but I'm having trouble finding anything. Thank you!

[free2breathe]

The 30 days after your 341 is the time creditors have to object to your exemptions. The 60 days is the time creditors have to object to the discharge of the debt you owe them.

If there was an issue with the expenses, the panel trustee would have likely called you on it then and there. You made it through the 341 quickly, smooth sailing. You're in the 60 day club!

[SunshineGal]

Congrats!

The US Trustee has 10 days to motion to dismiss for Presumption of Abuse. The panel Trustee has 30 days to object to your exemptions. As for the 60 day deadline, if the Trustee, US Trustee or a creditor has a reason to object to the discharge or a debt being discharged, they must file it within the 60 day timeline.

[csonly]

Just curious...why would a creditor object? You don't have the money to pay them, so what would their objection be, again, just wondering.

[SunshineGal]

In order for a creditor to object they need to file an Adversary Proceeding. Generally speaking, this will only happen if you had large purchases or cash advances within 3-6 months. If they win, than the debt does not get discharged in the BK, and they have a long time to collect on the money due.

[csonly]

We haven't charged on credit cards or got cash advances in over 2 years, so I don't think we need to worry about that happening. We did sit in on several cases at the 341 that were before us and the trustee did basically ask the same questions, but he was also a bit intimidating at times, other times would crack jokes, etc. Talk about wishing your life away (well, at least 60 days of it).

[SunshineGal]

The 60 days will be over before you know it, I'm sure it will all be fine.

[BKHELP138]

Question to everyone ... Once the trustee files a report of no distribution and asks to be removed from your bk does that mean the 10 days and 30 days do not matter for trustee and US trustee objections ?


Example : Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution: I, having been appointed trustee of the estate of the above-named debtor(s), report that I have neither received any property nor paid any money on account of this estate; that I have made a diligent inquiry into the financial affairs of the debtor(s) and the location of the property belonging to the estate; and that there is no property available for distribution from the estate over and above that exempted by law. Pursuant to Fed R Bank P 5009, I hereby certify that the estate of the above-named debtor(s) has been fully administered. I request that I be discharged from any further duties as trustee. 341(a) Meeting Held and Concluded. Key information about this case as reported in schedules filed by the debtor(s) or otherwise found in the case record: This case was pending for 1 months. Assets Abandoned (without deducting any secured claims): $ Assets Exempt: $ , Claims Scheduled: $, Claims Asserted: Not Applicable, Claims scheduled to be discharged without payment (without deducting the value of collateral or debts excepted from discharge): . filed by .

[SunshineGal]

Question to everyone ... Once the trustee files a report of no distribution and asks to be removed from your bk does that mean the 10 days and 30 days do not matter for trustee and US trustee objections ?

NO, the deadlines still apply.

[BKHELP138]

Thanks

[justbroke]

Just to followup, the (Panel) Trustee and the United States Trustee (UST) are two distinct people and have two separate functions. The Panel Trustee administers the case and assets on behalf of the creditors (and is an appointee of the UST). The Office of the UST (OUST) is responsible for making sure that the laws are adhered to and to force as many people as possible into Chapter 13s.

The real wildcard is the UST's objection to the discharge under 11 USC 707(b)(2) and 707(b)(3). The 707(b)(3) objection can be made up until the 60 days past the first scheduled 341 Meeting has passed, or later if the UST asks for an extension. You will generally KNOW before, at or very shortly after the 341 Meeting if the OUST is interested in your case! So much so that the UST will usually attend your 341 Meeting to examine you under oath if there is a problem. If the OUST never contacted you or your attorney by the time of the 341 Meeting or shortly thereafter (within the 10 days), it generally means that the OUST is not interested in your case.

[tcreegan]

Hi all,

Hey BKHELP, when the trustee reports no distribution and washes their hands of the matter you are basically done except for the waiting. The trustee has said everything is OK. The UST or a creditor could raise an issue, but if you haven't heard from them already the odds of someone raising a fuss is somewhere between slim and none.

I think I was happier about the no distribution report than the discharge...

Tom in Colo

[csonly]

To anyone....I see where a lot of people on this forum had their 341 meeting and then the "no distribution" the same day or the next day. Is there a time-frame for the trustee (the one at the meeting) to file his report? Also, does he do this right through pacer or does it have to go through different channels before it hits pacer?

[justbroke]

We have to back up for a minute to understand the motivation of a (panel) Trustee to file a Report of No Distribution within a day of a 341 Meeting! First, the Trustee only earns about $60 for each case that hits his desk. That's if it's a no asset case because on asset cases he earns a commission! So, a smart Trustee will not play around with a no asset case and immediately file a Report of No Distribution and ask to be dismissed from the case! That way, he actually profits, maybe $10 from that case. So, the reason the report is so fast, is because it's best for the Trustee to be done with a no asset case as quickly as possible.

This Report is required by the bankruptcy court for disposition of the case, so it will always be in PACER. It's technically not a document, but a "docket entry".

[AngelinaCatHub]

We have to back up for a minute to understand the motivation of a (panel) Trustee to file a Report of No Distribution within a day of a 341 Meeting! First, the Trustee only earns about $60 for each case that hits his desk. That's if it's a no asset case because on asset cases he earns a commission! So, a smart Trustee will not play around with a no asset case and immediately file a Report of No Distribution and ask to be dismissed from the case! That way, he actually profits, maybe $10 from that case. So, the reason the report is so fast, is because it's best for the Trustee to be done with a no asset case as quickly as possible.

This Report is required by the bankruptcy court for disposition of the case, so it will always be in PACER. It's technically not a document, but a "docket entry".

Then my Trustee made out well. About 30 days into waiting I was declared an asset case and had a 2007 examination. I could have avoided all of that legally if I were not so ignorant at the time and if my lawyer was any good at all. It cost us 10.5K and took us a year to pay this and many months before our case was closed due to disbursement of the funds and the Trustee's lawyer fee. Anything I/we have learned and advise about, we learned AFTER the damage was done, right here on this Forum. Much from JB as well but, it got us to research the law that I/we had no idea of it's meaning. One reason I we stay on, is to advise as many others as we can, not to perform stupids as we did.

P.S. It also cost us 10K in income taxes. 'Hub