Paypal Debit Card and Bankruptcy Petition

[LynnD]

I think I screwed up. I didn't list my paypal debit card on my bankruptcy petition and one of my clients pays me on it. I listed the income but didn't list the paypal card? I was planning on printing the statement to send to the Trustee with my bank statement but do I need to ammend the paperwork to include this card?

Basically what happens is he puts my money into my paypal account and I have a debit card so I usually just withdraw the cash or use it as a debit card for purchases.

[tobee43]

i never listed my card...really.....

but it you listed the income you should be fine...and if are that concern, since you did not mention the amount, but if it's large...you can just file and amend your petition and add the statements from paypal.

[LynnD]

Hi Tobee..

The balance isn't high at all and on the day of filing it was 0. I usually pull the money off but will use the card at times. What concerned me was he asked for my bank statements--which I included and then I thought.. well would he want my papal statement as well? But if i include my papal statements will he be upset and wonder why I didn't list it on the petition.

What I did was just print off the income statement from where I work. If he requests the paypal statement, I can have it ready and take to the 341 in case?

I'm not even close to any cut off's. I made a whopping 1300 in Dec and an additional 1200 in child support but my rent alone is 1100 and then expenses leave me with $11 per month which is really not accurate because there are ALWAYS more expenses than money. My bank account had $2.44 day of filing. I would think he'd see my case and be like 'oh no hope here of finding anything' and not even waste his time looking deep. Clearly I don't make enough money but I still don't want to mess everything up by one stupid thing.

[tcreegan]

Hi Lynn,

I think this falls under the 'not worth bothering about' file. You listed the income and had no money in there on file-date, it doesn't alter your BK, you're in the clear. I favor taking everything to the 341, better safe than sorry. But I also favor the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, if the trustee doesn't ask about it, don't mention it. My first thought was 'paypal is not a bank' and I'll bet the trustee thinks along the same lines.

if i include my papal statements will he be upset ...not sure, how does he like the Pope...?

Sorry, couldn't pass that one up...

Tom in Colo

[debee]

LOL @ Tom!

I would take the statement to the 341 as well. Someone else on the forum was asked to produce their paypal account record at their 341. I believe in that case the trustee knew they'd been selling things on ebay. He also asked for their ebay records. Anyway, if you have your statement with you, you'll be ahead of the game. And nothing to fear since there was nothing in it on the day of filing and your records can prove that if need be.

[tobee43]

Hi Tobee..

The balance isn't high at all and on the day of filing it was 0. I usually pull the money off but will use the card at times. What concerned me was he asked for my bank statements--which I included and then I thought.. well would he want my papal statement as well? But if i include my papal statements will he be upset and wonder why I didn't list it on the petition.

What I did was just print off the income statement from where I work. If he requests the paypal statement, I can have it ready and take to the 341 in case?

I'm not even close to any cut off's. I made a whopping 1300 in Dec and an additional 1200 in child support but my rent alone is 1100 and then expenses leave me with $11 per month which is really not accurate because there are ALWAYS more expenses than money. My bank account had $2.44 day of filing. I would think he'd see my case and be like 'oh no hope here of finding anything' and not even waste his time looking deep. Clearly I don't make enough money but I still don't want to mess everything up by one stupid thing.

again, i would not worry about it at all.........

that's just like saying if you pay a pre paid debit card you have to list it when the balance is empty....you do not...

i used paypal for rent payments as well as other payments...however, all funds were transferred directly from our checking account which is of course connected to paypal......so those that really don't understand paypal don't get that...it does in fact show up on your checking account...that's when you transfer in and out...

also..i have never heard anyone being asked about their "paypal" account...i have sold on ebay for over 12 years....but it's all a loss...BIG time.....when i had to sell my clothes for food and my blouse still had a tag of $60 on it and i sold it on ebay for $10....it's a loss...NOT a gain....

also....you can bring a "printout" to the 341....i would not bother...i never kept more than $2 in there and all monies were transferred into the checking account which the trustee already has...

also, it's the same principle as a gargage sale....are you going to be asked for all the transactions...i don't think so.

many people LOVE to frighten others i have no clue why....but they just do and many of them haven't even filed bk yet...but just poke around and comment and scare people...i'm sorry for that! really.

the bottom line is always be truthful......a lie is the only thing that come back and hit you .....and IF on the day of filing it was zero..i would not worry at all. i know how checking account had approx 1600 in it ON the day of the 341 but on the petition it had $150........were we lying.......absolutely NOT...that was before rent, utilities etc., where paid...we pd ALL bills via our checking account and it was consistent for over a year....and actually after we pd or if we had to pay all our bills at one time we would have been in the negative...


so don't worry yourself sick over this...by the way my new debit card JUST came in the mail last thursday!


oh!!!!

Tom: My first thought was 'paypal is not a bank' and I'll bet the trustee thinks along the same lines.

tom's got that right!!!

[debee]

..i have never heard anyone being asked about their "paypal" account...

Here's a thread that talks about paypal and describes a situation where someone was asked for their paypal & ebay records. It's not the thread I was thinking of when I posted earlier, but it'll do.

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?22437-Ebay-and-Paypal

Although not relevant to LynnD's situation, it's interesting to note that depending on how a person structures their paypal account, they can also receive a 1099-div at year end. That sort of paper trail is easy for a trustee to sniff out.

This second thread also references trustees asking for paypal records & the whole perjury thing (although since OP has no money, no biggie.):

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?45863-How-would-a-trustee-know-if-you-had-a-Paypal-account&highlight=paypal

eta: Ultimately you just want your case to discharge and close as fast as possible. Anticipating what might be required of you (like paperwork that might be asked for) and having it ready is just good prep and will prevent unnecessary delays. Good luck!

[tobee43]

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...bay-and-Paypal

that's from 2008....many trustee's were just being to understand what paypal is or really is NOT....


however, it is true now that many large companies use paypal to get payments.....

once again, i looked at that thread and it was too long ago to be updated or maybe even at the time (i know our trustee was about 70 years old) and most likely didn't or doesn't use paypal much like many of us do today.

however, the bottom line here is being honest and not holding back any info that can come back to bite you.

had i had over a few hundred dollars in there....i would have listed it ...no doubt...

[debee]

that's from 2008....many trustee's were just being to understand what paypal is or really is NOT....

This is a thread from 2010: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=paypal

The post of interest in it is shark's because he/she quotes the new (as of 2011) IRS reporting guidelines that have nothing to do with the interest bearing aspect of paypal accounts (& 1099s) which is paper trail enough, but now there are also reporting issues with the number of transactions (which could be 200 peanut transactions) and/or the dollar amount (20K plus).

Most people use paypal as a pass-through account - I know I do - and when that's the case, there is nothing to hide. BUT that doesn't mean the trustee won't ask for records. Some people leave money 'on deposit' in their accounts and others operate businesses through paypal (while still retaining the option of leaving money on deposit). When there is a trail leading from the person's bank account to paypal there is every reason to ask for the records just in case the person is stashing money there.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of the trustee & her/his staff. I also think it's always in a debtor's best interest to avoid unnecessary delays. To each his own.

eta: The threads (in my previous post) were from 2008 & late fall 2009.

[tobee43]

This is a thread from 2010: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=paypal

The post of interest in it is shark's because he/she quotes the new (as of 2011) IRS reporting guidelines that have nothing to do with the interest bearing aspect of paypal accounts (& 1099s) which is paper trail enough, but now there are also reporting issues with the number of transactions (which could be 200 peanut transactions) and/or the dollar amount (20K plus).

Most people use paypal as a pass-through account - I know I do - and when that's the case, there is nothing to hide. BUT that doesn't mean the trustee won't ask for records. Some people leave money 'on deposit' in their accounts and others operate businesses through paypal (while still retaining the option of leaving money on deposit). When there is a trail leading from the person's bank account to paypal there is every reason to ask for the records just in case the person is stashing money there.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of the trustee & her/his staff. I also think it's always in a debtor's best interest to avoid unnecessary delays. To each his own.

eta: The threads (in my previous post) were from 2008 & late fall 2009.

so debee...when did you file your bk??????
and was it discharged yet.....are you ready to celebrate the 60 day club yet...or did you file a chapter 13????

just wondering here......you seem to have many comments but NO experience??? just looking for something you personally went through... and can share without leading to a http/ or a quote....just a REAL experience....i know you are so smart and have so MUCH to share....please tell us about YOUR experience with YOUR bk....

and once again happy new year...and we are closing on ur house next month!! whoppppppppeeeeeee

[debee]

so debee...when did you file your bk?????? and was it discharged yet.....just looking for something you personally went through....just a REAL experience....i know you are so smart and have so MUCH to share....please tell us about YOUR experience with YOUR bk....

Tobee, this is weird. If you had wanted to ask me personal questions you should have pm'ed me. Had you done that, I still wouldn't have answered you, but that's where it should have been done.

Please don't get personal with me on a thread again.

[tobee43]

Tobee, this is weird. If you had wanted to ask me personal questions you should have pm'ed me. Had you done that, I still wouldn't have answered you, but that's where it should have been done.

Please don't get personal with me on a thread again.

oh....i didn't think those types of questions as "personal" on this forum as MOST of us have that info in our signature spots...open...in public..and it's a "bankruptcy" forum so usually people talk about their bk experiences they had themselves, sorry if you misunderstood...it wasn't that i was asking your your name or address or ss...or the such....it's a basic question on the forum...many people ask each other when they filed, did they go chapter 7, 13, 11, 20 or why...etc... or when they were discharged....i just wanted you to share your experiences that's all...and yes, your correct in as much as the question was personally directly to you, however,i didn't mean to GET personal, but i just wanted to know where and what you personally, yourself.....YOUR experience with you journey brought you... i think that's fair...if you took it personally...well then what can i say?

[free2breathe]

Asking about one's personal experience is rather, well, personal. Some choose not to share that information. I don't think it makes the information they share less relevant. I for one have found that because personal experiences in bankruptcy vary so widely, I prefer to read actual case law etc. on issues. It makes me feel a lot more confident than just "he said, she said" so to speak. Just my personal preference

[tyson24]

Lynn,

I would do just as Tom and tobee said. Throw it in the "don't worry about it" file. Just like a throw away credit card with no balance. Good luck to you Honestly, I have beat every issue in my BK with a dead horse and when it was all said and done, (well not officially DONE) it was all moot. Relax and don't sweat the small stuff

[tobee43]

Asking about one's personal experience is rather, well, personal. Some choose not to share that information. I don't think it makes the information they share less relevant. I for one have found that because personal experiences in bankruptcy vary so widely, I prefer to read actual case law etc. on issues. It makes me feel a lot more confident than just "he said, she said" so to speak. Just my personal preference

case law does not always rule favorably in an actual court room as we see on tv....i have seen judges take "case" law and throw it right out the door....

i have also in my total career as a law researcher sited thousands of cases.....for the atty's i worked for and many of the cases although on the books meant nothing....the judges do their own interpretation of the "law"....and it's usually the best or better atty that can also make that case law fit into their situation the best....seen it 15 years i was in the business...13 at one firm and 2 years at another.

it's like doctoring yourself when your a doctor....i'd rather see it then read it! again it's personal, however, i rather speak with someone that actually went through the process and experience that is right brained and just looks up law...(been there, done that).... but you're right...or correct... some may find it too personal to ask about their bk on a bk forum. i don't get it, but i understand it.

it's kinda someone telling you what it feels like to give birth....and be a man....LOL!!!!