Judgment after discharge and protest of discharge

[jjim120]

Thanks to all of you for providing a listening post, even though our situation was so dire that nothing could be done. We are close to being done with it, as our bankruptcy lawyer has said we will be pursued for the rest of our lives and have any income, inheritances, etc., attached to pay the stay judgments if we don't agree to the settlement agreement that the team of corrupt lawyers have presented. We will do so in the next two weeks, since we have no other choice. For the first time in our lives, nearly 70 years, we will be signing something that is not really true; we are being forced to do so because we have no assets left. Fifty years of honesty, integrity and doing the right thing, of taking care of our employees as if they were family -- all gone because one corrupt lawyer (who says often "I may be disbarred someday, but by then I'll have so much money it won't matter") and the others that he could get to do his dirty work, know how to use the system for their own ends.
The attorney who wanted the property even before we were involved with it and whoever is behind him have won, even though the mortgage fraud felon they were using to buy the property for them was taken from the picture by the FBI and sent to prison. They managed to co-opt the bank attorney and related insider into doing their dirty work, and, by forcing us into bankruptcy and threatening other lawyers, kept the truth from ever being told. They will continue to harass and sue others for several years. The current count of damages to innocent victims is at least six businesses destroyed, ten people filed bankruptcy and have lost everything they had, and over a hundred have lost their jobs, but our legal system is so segmented, rigidly paper-bound, and money-driven that honest, hard-working people doing good lose to the con artists and crooks out for money and winning-at-all-costs.

[AbbeyA]

I'm really sorry this is not turning out the way it should jjim. What will happen with the construction company's insurance? Will they be required to pay out the judgment?

[CoBelle]

Oh how I empathize with what you are facing. While my sitch is very different, it is also being 'run' by an attorney and judge...both crooked as they come, and all for money. I wouldn't be surprised if your 'villain' the attorney isn't being protected by 'friends' in high places...aka the courts. I have no faith in the legal system anymore.

I wish I oculd offer advice, but I have none. It seems that even when these types are careless and make obvious mistakes...that somehow they prevail in our legal system. In my case, I can only hope for God's revenge..or maybe a godfather's revenge which would be just as sweet. Trying to locate a godfather.

I'm also in the same boat re someone (in my case x-husband) trying to say that my debt to him is nondischargeable. His lawyer threatened me for even having filed an answer. AGain, since I only have social security, there is nothing left for him to 'take' except that he still owes me beaucoup bucks...(which , had he paid, would have meant that I didnt' have to declare bk in the first place) and he will probably try to get that 'set off' in the state court. Dialysis would be too good for him AC...can you think of something worse?????

Anyhow, I'm so sorry ;you are dealing with this at this point in your lives. I'm in the same boat....hard not to just give up.

[jjim120]

AbbeyA, Most likely the insurance company will pay some sort of settlement out of court rather than fight it. That is what insurance companies tend to do rather than fight, even when they know there is no case. Since we were told by the one lawyer (who said he could win the case against the bank but we would never see any money) that the cost of discovery alone would $500,000-$1,000,000, and that was over 2 years ago.
Everyone but the majority partner's lawyer who either wanted the property or wanted it stopped and the bank attorney who got paid by the bank and is now getting a percentage of whatever can be collected from the many lawsuits by representing the company to whom she sold the note are screwed. Even the majority partner has now filed bankruptcy, when, at the time he and his attorney started the con game with the felon, was only a few months from finishing and moving into his $3 million condo and pocketing the majority of the profits.
These crooked, conspiring attorneys were busy lining their pockets, knowing their bank was being sold with US Treasury aid and that they would be able to get away with it! We have been told to our faces that if will be a cold day in hell before any of these corrupt lawyers and their insider bankers could ever be deposed. But that is our legal system today -- controlled by money, power and influence to perpetrate more power and influence.

[yellowstone]

you need an attorney advising you - from what you have posted it does not sound to me as though the attorney you have now is interested. probably because you can't afford to pay for the defense. however that is no reason to let these so-called creditors get away with it. show up in court and file responses...be your own advocate. be straightforward and honest with the judge. and you might get lucky.

[AbbeyA]

AbbeyA, Most likely the insurance company will pay some sort of settlement out of court rather than fight it. That is what insurance companies tend to do rather than fight, even when they know there is no case. Since we were told by the one lawyer (who said he could win the case against the bank but we would never see any money) that the cost of discovery alone would $500,000-$1,000,000, and that was over 2 years ago.
Everyone but the majority partner's lawyer who either wanted the property or wanted it stopped and the bank attorney who got paid by the bank and is now getting a percentage of whatever can be collected from the many lawsuits by representing the company to whom she sold the note are screwed. Even the majority partner has now filed bankruptcy, when, at the time he and his attorney started the con game with the felon, was only a few months from finishing and moving into his $3 million condo and pocketing the majority of the profits.
These crooked, conspiring attorneys were busy lining their pockets, knowing their bank was being sold with US Treasury aid and that they would be able to get away with it! We have been told to our faces that if will be a cold day in hell before any of these corrupt lawyers and their insider bankers could ever be deposed. But that is our legal system today -- controlled by money, power and influence to perpetrate more power and influence.

All I can say is that I hope the insurance co. settles the debt and you are able to move forward from this. I wonder if they will go aftet the senior partner, like they did your dh...

[jjim120]

The insurance company will not settle any debts, as the only debts left are mechanics' liens held by our team of subcontractors, they will probably pay a large sum to the new owner and the corrupt lawyer to simply drop the false alleged allegations rather than fight to prove the allegations false. The senior partner was "forgiven" his personal guarantees to the bank before the foreclosure attorney sold the note to the insider-held company that now owns the project. The senior partner is also a lawyer, personally "acquainted" with the judges and lawyers in the district where this was done. That is the biggest problem we have faced in all of this: the entire scam is the work of lawyers using verbal fraud to tell each other and their clients twisted tales and generate big fees. The have managed to loot their own bank, to loot a large number of honest businesses, to loot the life-savings of homeowners that had bought into the first phase of the project, and to destroy hundreds of innocent people who were not even directly involved with the project.
Yellowstone, we have been through 7 lawyers, each a specialist, and have paid out hundreds of thousands in legal fees. That is why we are losing our house. We mortgaged it to pay the lawyers. At the present time, the only lawyer we have representing us is a bankruptcy lawyer, and this is the final step that the conspiring lawyers have to go through to make sure that we have nothing left and will do as they want to loot the insurance company. It's all about money, and they don't care who they destroy to get it. Most of what has been done is unethical, but these lawyers know how to twist and distort the language to make their actions "legal."

[AbbeyA]

AbbeyA, Most likely the insurance company will pay some sort of settlement out of court rather than fight it. That is what insurance companies tend to do rather than fight, even when they know there is no case. Since we were told by the one lawyer (who said he could win the case against the bank but we would never see any money) that the cost of discovery alone would $500,000-$1,000,000, and that was over 2 years ago.
Everyone but the majority partner's lawyer who either wanted the property or wanted it stopped and the bank attorney who got paid by the bank and is now getting a percentage of whatever can be collected from the many lawsuits by representing the company to whom she sold the note are screwed. Even the majority partner has now filed bankruptcy, when, at the time he and his attorney started the con game with the felon, was only a few months from finishing and moving into his $3 million condo and pocketing the majority of the profits.
These crooked, conspiring attorneys were busy lining their pockets, knowing their bank was being sold with US Treasury aid and that they would be able to get away with it! We have been told to our faces that if will be a cold day in hell before any of these corrupt lawyers and their insider bankers could ever be deposed. But that is our legal system today -- controlled by money, power and influence to perpetrate more power and influence.

OK, I'm confused. Why is the senior partner filing bk when his personal guarantee was dropped by his buddies at the bank? Did he sign other personal guarantees during the course of the project? Is this the same guy who is an attorney and "in like Flynn" with the judges/lawyers affiliated with the case or are there two different senior partners that were on the project?

[jjim120]

AbbeyA, There is a whole mess of behind-the-scenes maneuvering that we cannot ferret out. Much of it does not make sense, and because of confidentiality rules and attorney-client privilege, there is no way to bring it to light. The senior partner, owner of 75% of the project, and a lawyer, has been named in a new lawsuit brought by the new owner to whom the bank sold the note. I suspect that, because the bank attorney may be on the hook for acting improperly in dropping the personal guarantees, the new owner did this to make it appear that that was rescinded; there are still multiple lawsuits over the mechanics' liens and the pending threat of suit against the insurance company. Most likely, much of his wealth is now held in other names, possibly even in other countries, and, by making it appear that he is bankrupt and has nothing to guarantee the loan.
We were too honest and too ignorant of the system to know that the game played by many wealthy people is to protect certain assets by sending it overseas where it couldn't be attached, so everything we had was in our businesses and home properties. We even questioned the need to sign personal guarantees at the time, and were advised by our lawyer that it was very rare for a bank to come after someone on a personal guarantee. especially when the property itself was worth much more than the amount of the loan.
We think that the reason for all of this is simply to cover up a confidence game and the lawyers' roles when our original response was to fight rather than rolling over and going away. This con game has apparently worked on a smaller scale in the same area for years, as the attorney for the senior partner has apparently amassed a fortune in property, put numerous small firms out of business and individuals into bankruptcy,by behind-the-scenes political dealings. We have been told that the other attorneys in the area are afraid of him, that realtors in the area pay blood money in retainer fees to make it hard for him to sue them, etc. In this case, he and his partner may have set up a hack lawyer to do their dirty work, knowing that she was the unethical type to use the law as her personal playground rather than as an instrument of justice.

We are not alone in having this happen to us, and I really wish there were some ways to expose these games being played by lawyers and bankers lining their own pockets at the expense of hard-working honest people all over this country, but it doesn't seem that the good side ever wins; or when they do, the corrupt just find a new way around the system. Even with the sub prime lawsuits that have destroyed so many poor homeowners, the class-action win was nothing more than a slap on the wrist, with the people whose lives were destroyed "winning" less than $100 each after the lawyers were paid. Everyone should read a book by Michael W Hudson - The Monsters- detailing the games played in that lending market. Until the feds get tough and enforce real law that keeps the playing field level instead of deregulating to give the financial industry carte blanche to do as they please, the "little guys" will take it on the chin, our economy will periodically tank and wipe out any gains honest people make to fuel the greed of the mighty.

[jjim120]

Just have to post the latest development in our saga to let you know how corrupt and unethical our legal system is. The realtor who worked on the project had been sued as well, even though he was stripped of his commissions and had already lost his home. He and his family were living in a small apartment donated by a friend, and his church was helping out with electric bills, etc. He had been waiting for the medical system to help him out with essential heart surgery, and last week was in the hospital for that surgery to save his life.
He has no lawyer, since he cannot afford to pay, and has tried to represent himself pro se. Last week, the evil group went to court, two days after his surgery when he was medically unable to appear. The judge refused to reschedule the hearing and issued a large default judgment against him.
This is apparently the game the evil group is playing. Force everyone they can remotely drag into the case into total financial destruction, go to the judges they play golf and dine with at the country club for default judgments, then go after them in bankruptcy court to reach a stay of that judgment by trying to force them to "cooperate" by testifying against other entities who have money, such as the various insurance companies or the title company.

[Empire]

Not for nothing, but if I found myself in a situation where I was attacked on all levels, whether it be through the courts or such and it was verified corruption on a greedy persons part. He would find himself meeting a bit of old school justice. Accidents happen all the time? Your right though, corruption is running rampant throughout our whole system. Its just a matter of time before our society falls because of it. Its already happened to civilizations in the past ours is next. You are right being an honest caring person, don't ever think otherwise. He will fall...

[jjim120]

If I did what you suggest, I would be as bad as the evil lawyers are. Others who are aware of what has happened in this series of corrupt events - bankers, other lawyers, and even a retired judge - are appalled when they know the truth, but they all seem to believe that there is no legal relief for any of us or the 100s of others who have been severely damaged. It is really sad to know that the entire case began with us feeling sorry for two men who had run into severe health problems and needed help to finish their excellent project. Out of compassion, and the memory of a former worker and friend who had suffered and ultimately committed alcoholic suicide after the same tongue and jaw surgery the senior partner had, my husband tried to help. They sought him out, and practically begged him to step in, praised his high reputation for integrity and honesty and the quality of his career work, offering a share of the project if he would take it to completion so that they could have the pride of seeing it finished and retire to the property once finished. There was nothing that could have predicted the level of corruption, deception, and lies that destroyed a 25 year business and a 50 year career as Professional Engineer and builder.

[Empire]

If I did what you suggest, I would be as bad as the evil lawyers are.

Never suggested you do anything, said if I were in your situation...

I agree with your observation of the system being corrupt, and it will get worse because the worse isn't over. When the markets crash again (and they will) it will become horrific.

Good luck to you.

[discombob1]

Have you considered finding a good investigative journalist? They live for stories like this, and if you have proof a little media attention will go a long way.

[jjim120]

Have you considered finding a good investigative journalist? They live for stories like this, and if you have proof a little media attention will go a long way.

Yes, we have, and would love to talk to a good one, preferably someone like Charles Ferguson or Michael W. Hudson, or someone who would turn it into a fictional book and/or movie, kind of a fictional, but based on reality, 'Inside Job' or 'Wall Street."

All of us who were destroyed have now lost everything, have no options for any relief left - financially or legally. Perhaps a better strategy would be the book and movie showing the corruption and the deterioration of ethics in the legal profession. The area in which this took place offers many opportunities for writing in sex, drugs, murder, and so on in the script, fast boats, and a female lawyer in bed with a judge. There is even the death of the auditor hired by the bank who refused to do what the lawyer ordered, then died under suspicious circumstances. Even the receiver appointed by the court privately told us that there was nothing wrong with the project, it was just that we were getting screwed, but if he said anything, he would lose his business and be run out of the city as well. The first loan officer who worked on this loan left the bank shortly after it started, with a cryptic warning to "watch out," and that he was leaving because he "had differences" with the bank. Even the President of this bank's branch left under suspicious circumstances.

The biggest problem in proving the entire scheme is that it was run by lawyers who are protected by confidentiality and attorney-client privilege. We would have trouble proving who the original con artists were who ended up dropping their purchase plan, even though we know they exist, and believe that they are a group the FBI sent to prison for mortgage fraud in another case after seizing their assets- boats, airplane, house, etc. When this first started, we had one of our lawyers call one of the biggest law firm in our state (and a big national firm as well) to hire a specialist in this type of law. We were shocked to be told that that firm already represented the "new owners" of the project, when in fact there was no deal we knew of to sell it, and even the majority partner did not know of any such deal. Just getting the facts - the names of the people who hired that firm - is legally impossible without court subpoena, and perhaps not even possible with a subpoena. In any case, deposing lawyers is nearly impossible, and they certainly won't talk to journalists.