This is absurd- still on hold, and for no good reason it seems.

[olivies]

I know the trustees and the courts are busy with bankruptcies, but I feel like I'm just being strung along.

UST requested additional time for motion to dismiss back at the end of November, stating we didn't provide info requested. We provided whatever was asked for. In the past 3 weeks my attorney has contacted the UST twice by email, cc'ing me, asking what additional info she needs and what "as of" dates she is looking for on schedules I and J if she's looking for different ones than we've already filed . To date I've heard nothing from him that something was requested.

He said he spoke to her at length and she's really fixated on our rent.
We are a family of 8, our current rent is $1550, it was $1725 when we filed (we moved). The IRS allowance for a family of 5+ in our current county is about $1050 (it was $1100 in the previous county where we had filed).

He said while she's sympathetic to the situation, she has to follow the law. I get that.

But I also get that a family of 8 is not equal to a family of 5 in any of the other IRS standards which allows a per person additional exemption. And I also know that the means test asks if we feel the allowance does not accurately reflect the ability to provide housing there's an additional expense slot and it asks for a reason. We did that.

And I also know that a family of 5 has far more housing options than a family of 8. If I had just 3 kids any apartment complex or condo association would rent to us. I even pointed out to our attorney that we were turned down from a rental home simply because the HOA had guidelines that if a house was rented there was a 2 person per bedroom maximum. It was a 3BR house.

I also sent him PDFs of recent real estate searches in a 10 mile radius (that's a 300+ sq mile area) of our zip code. The cheapest 4br rental is $1175.
The next least expensive rental is $1875, and they keep going up from there.
The $1175 rental has sixteen registered sexual offenders/predators within a mile, four of them within 0.3 miles.
There is no way such a neighborhood could ever be deemed safe or reasonable for a family with kids.

So, if this really does come down to the UST being fixated on our rent, it has to go to a judge, right? I feel she's stalled, asked for more time- always files at the last possible day- and hasn't requested any further info. Why? How is it fair to just keep us hanging and strung along here? The IRS standards are not going to suddenly increase $500.

On the one hand, she isn't quick to dismiss or else she wouldn't ask for more time.
On the other hand, she hasn't asked for any further info that would help her or us out. So what the hell?!

[ozarkmiss]

Your stance sounds totally legit. I know taking it to a judge is a pain and $$, but if I were you, I'd feel confident explaining yourself in front of a judge.

Maybe your atty can have a private convo with the UST letting them know that you WILL be defending this rent expense. You already did your Due diligence once and moved......

I think you're going to come out on top. UST is probably mulling the law vs your situation and how to keep themselves out of trouble.

[chicagoannie]

Wow - I can sympathize with needing housing in a SAFE area. I live in a very nice community but when I had to move (eviction due to job loss) the choices for me and 4 kids were slim. The 3 or 4 affordable properties in my area also had numerous sex offenders living in the neighborhood.

I did find the perfect place, love it, great landlord and kept kids in same schools - I consider this my 2010 miracle! I do hope things work out for you!

[SunshineGal]

Wish I had some good advice for you, all I can say is hang in there. For what it's worth, I think the IRS rental allowances are way out of line with actual costs.

[tcreegan]

Hi olivies,

Did you send your research on rentals to the UST? Maybe get a couple real estate agents to sign on with you. If you are rejected by a rental, ask why and record their answer, send that along. Get as much research as you can, make sure you have copy and they have a copy. Bombard them with paper until they want you to go away.

Hope things start looking up for you!!

Tom in Colo

[ValleYum]

Hi olivies ~

The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development has suggested standards regarding occupancy limits in rental properties.

HUD FINALLY ISSUED OCCUPANCY POLICY

In December, 1998, HUD released a statement of policy of the factors it will use when evaluating a housing provider's occupancy policies to determine whether discriminatory conduct is occurring against families with children. This is a policy ....not a rule or law.

HUD has recommended a guideline of two persons per bedroom as a safe policy for providers. For policies which are more restrictive, HUD will take into account such factors as the size of the bedrooms and dwelling unit, capacity of sewer, septic and other building systems, and any city or state occupancy requirements governing the property to determine if discrimination against families with children is occurring.

http://rhol.org/rental/occupancy.htm

Hopefully the fact that a federal government agency has the 2 persons per bedroom limit as a recommendation for landlords to follow will carry some weight with the trustee (or the judge if necessary).

Remember, too, that state and local housing codes may have more restrictive rules/policies. Call your city or county zoning or code enforcement office and ask them.

All the properties I have managed or worked for in several states utilized the 2 people per bedroom standard. Since HUD has this as their recommendation, most landlords have their occupancy standards set to follow as it produces less wear and tear on the unit and is less of a burden on the utilities (sewer in particular).

If a child was born, adopted or the family structure changed due to marriage during a lease term and this change caused the tenants to be over the occupancy standard for the unit they resided in, their renewal notice would state that they must comply with the occupancy limits for the complex and move to the appropriate size unit or terminate their tenancy with the complex.

I hope you get this resolved soon. This must be so frustrating for you. :::hug:::