In a pickle...Decision time and I need advice!

[BROKEDED]

Trying to buy some more time in the house before we HAVE to file and especially to get past the Holidays. Don't want to be packing or moving during Christmas. Got the sale date postponed until we received an answer on our Modification application.

Well, once we pushed the banks buttons, things moved quickly...almost too quick. I received a Mod offer today and it reaffirmed my distrust of banks. I have 4 days to respond with signed paperwork and a check that is $200 MORE than my original mortgage and then drops to a whopping $65 per month less after that.

Where to start? Assuming they won't give me more time to respond or won't negotiate to a lower payment, how quickly before they can foreclose? In my state there has to be at least a 20 day notice before a sale and then a 10 day redemption period but they've already given notice of the sale once which was postponed. Do they at least have to start over with that?

If I DO make at least one payment, do I get the advantage of the 30/60/90 day late process again?

Thanks!

[HHM]

It really depends on the specifics of your state.

However, in general, I suspect that answer is no to all your questions (unfortunately). Generally, once a foreclosure date is set and all publication requirements are met, then all that happens is a reseting of the foreclosure date. In most states, no new notice need go out.

As for the modification, is the offer for a "permanent" modification. If so, MAYBE making one payment takes you out of default, but hard to say. However, the 30/60/90 day late is internal to the bank. A default is a default. If you are 10 days late, they could start the foreclosure. You MIGHT get the benefit of them having to restart the foreclosure process from scratch. The key thing you want to look for in the modification is a cancellation of the foreclosure. Review the modification agreement to see how, and if, the pending foreclosure is addressed.

Another alternative is to file your BK. Do an emergency chapter 13 (or 7, depending on your goals), that will buy you 45-90 days in the house.

If you are NOT going to keep the house, then why send the payment. Seems like a tall price to pay to buy time. I would put that money toward the eventual BK (or moving).

[BROKEDED]

"If you sign this commitment to modify the Mortgage and if you perform as required in this commitment, then we will cease collection activity on the Mortgage when the loan is modified. However if you fail to sign this commitment or if you fail to perform as required in this commitment, we will complete our collection action, including foreclosure if necessary."

That's kinda vague in the letter but the modification agreement itself states that the new payment and new lowered fixed interest rate will remain in effect until the Maturity Date. So that sounds pretty permanent to me. I'm probably going to call them today or early tomorrow to ask that I be given until the first of the month to review the agreement and gather the funds necessary to start the modification (buy time). I don't know if the four day deadline was an intentional jab or not but surely anybody with common sense would see that as unreasonable.

1. Would signing this agreement and subsequently defaulting force me to use the new slightly lower payment in filing chapter 7?

2. Would there be any detrimental effects by starting to make payments with the First and NOT the Second mortgage when filing BK? They are the only secured debts we are discharging along with three unsecured debts.

3. What questions do I need to ask the Bank in order to make the best decision on this without drawing too much attention to myself? Just ask if the modification cancels the existing foreclosure? Ugh, I just about typed BK there. Must make sure I don't make that slip up when talking to them!!! Whew!

Thanks!

[tobee43]

broke...i just wanted to mentioned that while...or DURING our time we were processing...or better said attempting to process our loan mod...they sent us a foreclosure summons....what we were advised by chase's attys, was that just because you are in the process of loan mod, it does not stop the foreclosure.

since the time between filing for the loan mod and the summons...( about 8 months!!! never did get an answer from chase), we decided it was best to leave the house since we both had lost our jobs in that time frame....that was almost 3 years ago. chase still hasn't foreclosed. we did leave the property...but still no foreclosure or sheriff's sale has transpired.

north carolina is a non-judicial....so i would, if i were you find out how long the foreclosure process is moving...i really hope for your sake, not quickly around the holidays.

best of luck...

i'm certain hhm will give you some excellent direction.

[BKlooker]

My 2 cents as a non-lawyer. Are you heart-set on keeping the house, or not?

If the answer is you are just trying to buy time before moving on, as was noted, maybe an emergency BK file is best? That would buy you a good month or 2 at least, and put all this past the holidays when you can better regroup.

Do you have any gauge for how long it takes them to move in your state? In my state, they just put into place legislation that said ALL foreclosures must wait a full 90-120 days before even starting from the time of last payment, regardless of what the deed or other paperwork says, and from there they have to follow a really strict (protracted) process. How long has it been since you last paid? Have you spoken with your lawyer about this yet? He/she can likely help you out with this, in reference to your BK.

If it were me, I think I would file now and enjoy the stay that comes with it, since it sounds like you just want some extra time in the house, so that's the best way to guarantee you another month or more.

Again, my 2 cents.

[BROKEDED]

Okaaaay, just got off the phone with an attorney and then my loan servicer. Using what HHM suggested I asked my attorney about the Modification offer. I explained that the offer lowered the payment, lowered the fixed interest rate, and added the amount in default to the back end of the loan and that it remained like that, if we accepted it, until the Maturity Date. She stated that it appeared for all means and purposes to be a permanent modification of an existing loan and if it was then if we accepted the mod, it should restart MOST of the foreclosure process. She agreed with what HHM said which was that the 30/60/90 day late issue was internal to the bank but that I should at least receive notice of hearing, notice of sale date, and then a redemption period. By law, that is a minimum of 50 days. I know that doesn't sound like much but that's an additional 50 days to CHOOSE a place to rent versus taking what we can get. The attorney said the best thing would be to talk to the servicer and specifically ask if this would bring me out of default.

Next call was the servicer. I couldn't get the person who worked up my Modification package and spoke with a gentleman in Default Resolutions. He tried the Mod person as well and said that she was not logged in, messages went to her voice mailbox and that it was full. He ended up sending her an email to contact me but while I had him on the phone I asked if he could answer my questions.

I specifically asked during our conversation in reference to accepting the Modification: "Am I essentially starting over with the mortgage?" "Does this make me current?" "Does this bring me out of default?" The answer to each of those questions was "Yes".

I also proposed a scenario in which I lost my job and could no longer afford payments at a later point, explaining that my job has been the source of our problems, and asked him if we defaulted at that point if the lender would simply sell the house without notice or if we would be notified before the house was sold. He replied that we would be notified. Granted, that answer could mean anything but I feared to dig much deeper at this point. I wasn't able to get an answer whether they could delay the date to accept the Mod so I'll have to call back in the morning or wait for the Mod person to read her email and respond.

Any advice from this???

Thanks!

[BROKEDED]

north carolina is a non-judicial....so i would, if i were you find out how long the foreclosure process is moving...i really hope for your sake, not quickly around the holidays.

Notice of Hearing requires 20 days. We received about 2-1/2 months. Notice of sale requires 20 days and the date WAS 20 days after the hearing and is included in the Notice of Hearing. The redemption period lasts for 10 days after the sale date.

The Clerk of Superior Court, who is over the hearing, is allowed to delay the hearing up to 60 days. Ours did this and it actually ended up being about 72 days due to his schedule. At the second hearing he would not delay it again although he suggested that he could when I asked. However, the substitute trustee noted that he was allowed to delay the sale date up to 28 days which he did. My attorney said that I shouldn't expect that to happen again. I laughed and said that I didn't plan on it being offered again.

My 2 cents as a non-lawyer. Are you heart-set on keeping the house, or not?

If the answer is you are just trying to buy time before moving on, as was noted, maybe an emergency BK file is best? That would buy you a good month or 2 at least, and put all this past the holidays when you can better regroup.

I have asked about emergency CH7s to each of the 3 BK attorneys that I talked to and they all stated that they did not like to do that because of issues with the Trustee. I don't know if that's just a pet peeve in this area or what. I have been told that I can still file before the redemption period runs out. Also I think that the servicer would still have to notify the second mortgage before a sale date but I don't know if they are bound to give them the 20 days normally required.

Do you have any gauge for how long it takes them to move in your state? In my state, they just put into place legislation that said ALL foreclosures must wait a full 90-120 days before even starting from the time of last payment, regardless of what the deed or other paperwork says, and from there they have to follow a really strict (protracted) process. How long has it been since you last paid? Have you spoken with your lawyer about this yet? He/she can likely help you out with this, in reference to your BK.

If it were me, I think I would file now and enjoy the stay that comes with it, since it sounds like you just want some extra time in the house, so that's the best way to guarantee you another month or more.

Again, my 2 cents.

We haven't paid since the end of last year. At this point I think the sands of the hourglass are about to run out but if I do nothing then I believe that we would need to be out between the middle and end of February if I count a BK stay giving me approximately 45 days. If I make just one payment I believe the SOONEST we would have to be out would be the middle to the end of May including the stay.

Even then I have a couple more options that I'm willing to try including a lease agreement or settlement with the second but I have to do a good bit more research on that with the Register of Deeds.

[tobee43]

BROKED...yes i know each state has it's own "guidelines" etc., when it comes to the foreclosure..i just hope for your and your family sake it can wait until after the holidays...

although we moved out of our house of 33 years on dec 12......no Christmas that year except via skype...we made it!

[BROKEDED]

Well I still couldn't get in contact with the Negotiator but was advised by a Default Resolution rep to go ahead and mail back the completed Modification Package with our intent and notate when we would be sending a payment. At this point our intent is to be well out of the way of the holidays. My wife is stressed with her job with a lot of end of year deadlines and doesn't want to be burdened with the worry of the Loan Servicer pulling a fast one and us having to file an emergency CH7 around Christmas or New Years.

We figured out that one payment would buy us a minimum of two months, and possibly an extra three to five months in the house. If you divide that payment by those two months, it turns out to be a very cheap rent payment for this area. Any payments after that result in dwindling returns, of course. We'll see how this pans out.

[Chowder]

I also proposed a scenario in which I lost my job and could no longer afford payments at a later point, explaining that my job has been the source of our problems, and asked him if we defaulted at that point if the lender would simply sell the house without notice or if we would be notified before the house was sold. He replied that we would be notified. Granted, that answer could mean anything but I feared to dig much deeper at this point. I wasn't able to get an answer whether they could delay the date to accept the Mod so I'll have to call back in the morning or wait for the Mod person to read her email and respond.

Thanks!

Those low level phone jockeys are not well informed, it's not prudent to expect qualified answers from them. Wait to hear from your Negotiator. Then double check what they tell you.

As far as delaying the start date on that mod. Those are generally issued with a fairly strict expire date.

[BROKEDED]

You are correct about the phone jockeys. I've found though that if they volunteer usable information without being prompted then they are usually credible. I've also found that calling at least three times and asking the same questions tend to point you towards the truth. As for the start date, they essentially gave me four days to mail it with a check. The Rep this morning said that it is quite normal for them to receive the paperwork first and the payment later but she advised to just have the payment there before the start date of the Mod which is actually January 1st. That was basically a stall tactic on my part to see if they would revise the paperwork and see how far out I could push the date. Had I been able to get in touch with the negotiator I think I could have been successful but there's probably a reason their voice mail stays full....so they don't have to hear from people like me. The Rep this morning also advised me to send a certified check and mail it so that it could be tracked which most people know but at least she did offer the info.

Another thing I do is ask the Rep that I'm talking to if they show the last time I called and what was said to make sure that my conversation is correctly noted each time. Since my paperwork has been accepted, the attention to detail and the quality of the calls HAS gone up but it only takes one bonehead to screw things up.