Bankruptcy and after petition debt in community property states.

[late49er]

Hello Everyone,

My fiance and I were planning to be married in a few weeks and she has suffered a major heart attack.

We are in quite a mess and hopefully someone can help us out.

Anyway she filed for bankruptcy a few months ago and was to get her discharged in a few weeks. We were waiting until the discharge to get married so my income would not be subject to the court or creditor scrutiny.

In a community property state while I am not responsible for pre-martial debts the creditors can go after the portion of my income that she would get because of the laws in our state. In our case she has a small pension but my income would be a big target.

Anyway this hospital visit can easily run over $100,000.00 and since she has already filed bankruptcy and the discharge has not occurred we will not be able to include this debt in her bankruptcy.

Once we are married the hospital will go after my income and will probably put us on the street before this is all over.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[debee]

Hi late49, I don't have any ideas for you except to check out the thread link below. Another couple here ran into a similar problem - medical debt after filing but before discharge - and there are some ideas put forth that might be useful to you and your fiance. ( As you already know, too late for an amendment)

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?64690-Medical-Bills-after-filing...-dismiss-amp-refile

ps. Very sorry to hear about your fiance.

[bk2009]

If your fiance is only receiving a small pension, it's possible that she will qualify (if the hospital does it, most do around here) for a big portion, if not all, of her medical debt to be wiped away.

[tcreegan]

I agree w/ bk2009, contact the hospital billing office and see if you can negotiate a payment plan.

Another idea would be to get your name on the hospital acct, get married, you file BK, joint debt is discharged

Of course you want to run this by a BK lawyer!!! Just a wild idea that popped in my head...

waiting until the discharge to get married ...probably a good idea..

Hope your loved one has a speedy recovery!

Tom in Colo

[late49er]

Hello Everyone,

It seems that basically we are well screwed.

Her medical bills are already over a $100,000.

The hospital will go after her but it will do no good. Once we are married they will go after me because in a community property state half of my income is hers and is fair game.

In a community property state it is true that a pre-marriage debts are not the responsibilty of the spouse but the community income is open for garnishment.. That income is 90% mine.

Seems crazy to save a persons life and then to destroy them financially.

Her bankruptcy will close in about a month.

The catch 22 is that if we don`t get married she doesn`t have insurance and there is no way we can pay for her medicines. If we get married the hospital will grab enough of my income to put us on the street and I will probably lose my job.

Just another day in paradise.

[tcreegan]

Hi late49er,

Have you consulted w. a lawyer? Nevada law seems clear (see below) but there have been some conflicting court rulings.

NRS 123.050 Husband or wife not liable for debts of other incurred before marriage. Neither the separate property of a spouse nor the spouse’s share of the community property is liable for the debts of the other spouse contracted before the marriage. [17 1/2:119:1873; added 1933, 118; 1931 NCL § 3371.01]—(NRS A 1975, 558)

Hope this helps, hope your future-spouse is recovering nicely,

Tom in Colo


Tom in Colo

[late49er]

Hello Tom,

Thanks for the advice and support.

I did talk to an attorney and he advised that while it is true that I am not responsible for the debt that once we are married the community property including income is open to the creditors.

The way this works is that say our community income is $4000.00 a month, it doesn`t matter who kicks in what, a creditor could go after 1/2 of that which is $2000.00 and get 25% of the income or $500.00 a month.

We don`t have enough leeway in our budget to cough up 25% of our income forever to pay a medical bill that is so huge.

Anyone know a way out of this?

Thanks for the help.

[tcreegan]

did you ask your lawyer about getting married then you file BK? Would that be an option?

[enuffznuff]

Don't get married. Problem solved.

Have a wedding, have a ceremony, just don't sign the piece of paper.

Alternately, can't a prenuptial agreement countering the community property laws solve this?

[clevelandmom]

Hi Late49er,

First of all, I am so sorry about your fiance's health problems and I wish her a very speedy recovery!

Next - okay, I may be completely nuts here, but I am going to agree with enuff (no offense enuff! LOL) The reason I say that is because as I was reading this thread, I was thinking to myself, "well, what if you were not getting married?" What if you weren't in her life - what would she have done then? It sounds to me like she would just have to do what so many others do - make a very minimal payment and just go on with life. Can you do what enuff said and maybe just have a ceremony and not sign the paper? Maybe just not get married in the eyes of the State, maybe just in the eyes of God? Will that work? It is definitely a quagmire, but for the sake of $100,000 and being "thrown out in the street," I would consider it if it's going to save you financially. I am going to keep reading this thread and please keep us posted. I wish you and your loved one nothing but the best!

[late49er]

Hello and thanks for the support and advise.

The reason we need to get really married is she doesn`t have any medical insurance now and the medications she has to take because of the heart surgery cost hundreds a month. They put two stents in her main artery. We are approaching the drug companies to see if they can help.

If we get married she gets insurance. If we get married the hospital garnishes my income and I probably will get fired but we don`t have the money to survive anyway.

Hopefully this will all work out.

[clevelandmom]

I know it may seem like the lesser of two evils, but if she doesn't have insurance, then there must be SOMETHING (Medicare?, Some type of government assistance?) that could help her. There have to be hundreds of thousands (millions?) in this country who are uninsured or underinsured and they are faced with high medical bills. What do they do? I know they can't possibly be thrown out on the street because the streets would be full! What do other people do who don't have someone to marry who will be able to provide them with medical insurance? I really think there has to be a solution to this. If you get married, and you get garnished 25% of your income, then suddenly we have 2 people in dire need, as opposed to just one in need and one who is fine. Where I work, I know they allow us to have our "significant other" on our insurance policy. They do not have to be married. Could you check with your employer and see if that is possible? Maybe you could get her on your insurance without marrying her - that way you don't have to worry about them garnishing you. I know, you've probably looked into that already - I just really think there has to be a way to fix this. If they have no choice but to write off her bills because she has no way of paying them while she's single, I would think that's a better solution then leaving you penniless just because you got married. Doesn't make sense to me. Let me ask you this - which is going to be worse, if YOU help to pay for her medication because she has no insurance, or if you got garnished? If her medication is going to cost $250.00 per month, and a garnishment would cost $500 per month, then not getting married is the better deal. Just my $0.02. I really do wish you the best. I know somehow everything always works out. Stay strong my friend.

[bk2009]

Did you check with the hospital to see if they participate in a poverty program of sorts? Nearly every hospital does this.