Son's Coins?

[drowning123]

Because you are required to be truthful. And you take an oath at your 341 that everything in your paperwork is 'true and correct'.

Yea, and we promised to pay back the banks and credit card companies, too, but we're all here because we didn't, no?

[MSbklawyer]

I thought of that but isn't a minor's property really the property of the parents?

No, that's not accurate. Minor's can't enter into legal agreements respecting their property. But they can and do own the equitable rights to their own property. They can't exercise any legal control of their property (such as selling, leasing or gifting it), except through a natural or legal guardian. But it's completely innacurate to say that a minor's property is "really" the property of the parent.

As long as your child's coin collection or other property is genuinely his (and not something you transferred to him as a fraudulent conveyance to keep it from the trustee) the trustee has no claim to it.

[AngelinaCat]

Yea, and we promised to pay back the banks and credit card companies, too, but we're all here because we didn't, no?

You are trying to split hairs and you know it.

[Flamingo]

No, that's not accurate. Minor's can't enter into legal agreements respecting their property. But they can and do own the equitable rights to their own property. They can't exercise any legal control of their property (such as selling, leasing or gifting it), except through a natural or legal guardian. But it's completely innacurate to say that a minor's property is "really" the property of the parent.

As long as your child's coin collection or other property is genuinely his (and not something you transferred to him as a fraudulent conveyance to keep it from the trustee) the trustee has no claim to it.

We were specifically told that only our child's furniture, clothing and personal incidentals were not to be listed on our paperwork for filing. This is for a child living with the debtors and being claimed as a dependent on the debtor's tax return. Any collections of any value that were hers would be considered part of the household contents, including any custodial savings in her name, jewelry, etc. If it is a household item, and a minor's possessions are part of the household, and has sale value, the parents (debtors) have access to those items and could sell the items making the items an asset. If the collection were lost in a house fire and claimed as a loss, the parents would receive the check for the loss, not the minor (to give an example as it was given to us). One needs to specifically speak with their attorney when it comes to any specific items "possessed" by their minor children as to gifts, collections, etc.

[Rebel]

Had a recent conversation with my attorney and want to share what he said because it sheds a different light on how the NY personal property exemption works. First of all, the exemption is NOT doubled for a married couple- $5000 is all we get. This $5000 exemption covers household items only- furniture, dishes, books, etc.- and the other items specifically stated, like a watch (to $35) and wedding ring, and also tools of the trade (to $600). Everything else, including other jewelry, collectibles, more than one TV, books over $50, and so forth, are nonexempt assets and need to be listed in detail. Because we are filing Chapter 13, we should be able to keep all these nonexempt assets, providing their total value does not exceed the amount we will be able to pay back through Chapter 13. In other words, the Creditors must receive at least as much through 13 as they would have if we filed Chapter 7 and the trustee sold all our nonexempt assets. Hope this explanation is helpful.

[debee]

As long as your child's coin collection or other property is genuinely his (and not something you transferred to him as a fraudulent conveyance to keep it from the trustee) the trustee has no claim to it.

This is my understanding as well.

If the boy bought his own coins with his birthday money, Christmas money, extra money he earned weeding, etc., then they are his property. Property in your keeping owned by another.

[Rebel]

My 18-year-old son lives with us, and my understanding of what my attorney said about his belongings is that, if my son paid for something with his own money, it is not to be included in our listing of assets. I assume that would include any collection he has paid for. However, I find it interesting that you mention furniture should not be listed, since a piece of furniture is definitely a household item. I was planning to list the furniture in my son's bedroom that we had purchased, but maybe I don't have to? I had not thought about his clothing- I don't believe he has paid for a single item of clothing that he wears, but I guess they would be considered 'gifts' and owned by him. Conversely, my son owns some computer and gaming equipment, and a big screen TV, that he paid for with his own money that I did not plan to include on the list, based on what our attorney said. Maybe this situation can not be compared to Flamingos' because my son is no longer a minor? He turned 18 6/15/2010. I'm assuming he would be listed as a dependent on our 2010 tax return, but am not sure about that, or if that would be the last year, or if he would continue to be a dependent as long as he is living with us. I am also confused as to how to handle the income aspect of this situation- my son just started a part time job and I had planned for him to contribute reasonable portion of his wages toward household expenses, such as his portion of the cell bill, auto insurance, food, etc. Does his entire income get included in the total household income used to calculate DMI, or just the portion he would be giving to us? Since the job is new, there is no way to calculate a 6-month average. And what happens when and if he moves out within the 3 year pay-out period? Would we have to pay to revise a new plan? I will have to consult our attorney about this at some point, but am wondering if anyone living in NY have experience with this type of situation?

[PushRestart]

I have a question about a child's coin collection. My 7 year old son has been collecting coins for a couple years. He doesn't have anything that's very valuable. Mostly common type coins and some commemoratives. He's rec'd some as gifts from family members over the last couple years as well.

I went through it today and anything that wasn't a modern standard circulation coin (which I estimated as face value), I looked up on eBay to see what people were paying for them. After adding up all the face value coins and the prices I got from eBay, I come up with a general resale value of about $700.

How is something like this handled? My wife and I don't have much of value in our home either. We have a car worth about $1400 that we want to keep, furniture and other property (appliances, clothes, electronics...) are worth about $3500. Would my son be able to keep the coins? He is VERY attached to them and it would be horrible taking them away. We live in NY and I know we have a total of $5000 of exempt property allowed per person but not sure if something like coins are not allowed to be kept at all.

As a coin collecter and past dealer, I can tell you that retail on coins is very, very far away from what coins will bring if you take them to a store to sell or sell on Craigslist. In many cases, coins are only worth melt value (silver value for example) and even then, most dealers will pay as little as 50-60% of melt, so you really have to ignore retail values. An average collection that cost $700 retail might easily sell for $100-150 at a store, the rare exception being if you had one coin that retailed for $700 which might then sell for more than the collection you described.