Question about the IRS standards

[daylate]

In looking at the housing standards there is a column for mortgage/rent and one for non-rent. The rent/mtg is pretty straightforward but is the other one supposed to be your utility expense?

Also in looking at this, my rent is above the standard by $300 but it is what it is. So can a trustee say move and only spend the allotted amount? or is that figure only a guideline? This stuff gets crazier the more you try to understand. And I'm guessing my utilities will be nowhere near the allotted number. add the two together and I'm right on.

[free2breathe]

This is taken from the US Trustee Program site. http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...anstesting.htm

"a. Housing and Utilities Standards are derived from Census and BLS data, and are provided by state down to the county level. The standard for a particular county and family size includes both housing and utilities allowed for a taxpayer’s primary place of residence.

Housing and Utilities standards include mortgage or rent, property taxes, interest, insurance, maintenance, repairs, gas, electric, water, heating oil, garbage collection, telephone and cell phone. The tables include five categories for one, two, three, four, and five or more persons in a household."

*This is the first time I've paid attention to the "cell phone" included in that figure. Most everyone I've read about has listed cell phone as a separate expense. Anyone else notice this before?

[olivies]

This is taken from the US Trustee Program site. http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...anstesting.htm

"a. Housing and Utilities Standards are derived from Census and BLS data, and are provided by state down to the county level. The standard for a particular county and family size includes both housing and utilities allowed for a taxpayer’s primary place of residence.

Housing and Utilities standards include mortgage or rent, property taxes, interest, insurance, maintenance, repairs, gas, electric, water, heating oil, garbage collection, telephone and cell phone. The tables include five categories for one, two, three, four, and five or more persons in a household."

*This is the first time I've paid attention to the "cell phone" included in that figure. Most everyone I've read about has listed cell phone as a separate expense. Anyone else notice this before?

I believe there is a line on the Means Test though for "other communication expenses". I think that's where cell phones and other non-essentials like call waiting, voicemail, etc. come in.

But for the OP, if you look HERE you will see the local standards for your state/county. They list mortgage/rent and non-mortgage. The utilities would fall into the non-mortgage.

And while a trustee can't tell you to move, they can disallow any dollar amount over the standard that you claim. You could always argue your case however. We are doing this now- we have a family of 8 and pay $1700 for rent. The standards list $1,060 for a family of 5 or more (which would get a very nice 3BR condo or apartment around here- but nobody will rent a 3BR to us because we have 8 people). Our attorney is arguing that just as there is a difference between the allowance for a family of 2 vs a family of 5, there should be additional room for variation when talking about a family of 5 vs 8.

[debee]

*This is the first time I've paid attention to the "cell phone" included in that figure. Most everyone I've read about has listed cell phone as a separate expense. Anyone else notice this before?

I've noticed that too, free. My cellphone is only $30, so no big deal where I put it. But it's in a funny spot on the schedule and if memory serves, I think the yard care stuff is also in a spot where most people don't claim it. Easy to see how people can get tripped up with expenses. Plus, there seems to be so much variation from one trustee to another. Makes the whole bapca uniformity dream a joke really.