Newbie questions about the purpose of the Means Test...and paying attorney for it.

[nicole1969]

We interviewed three attorneys and all said our case looks good for a Ch. 7 but because we are over the median by a few thousand (3-6K) they would want to do a means test - which they would charge me around $200 for. Once the means test confirms that we would qualify, at that time they said we would want to consider retaining them as our attorney. Does this make sense? Is this what other folks have done on the board when you got started with your attorneys? The $200 fee is separate from the $1500 attorney fee to handle the case.

Also, I completed the means test myself online and it showed negative disposable income. The attorneys had me walk though our information (debts and expenses) during the free consulation sessions and each agreed that we have no disposable income at the end of the month (but they did not do the actual means test.) Is there a chance the means test completed by the attorney will come out different and show that we wouldn't qualify for a chapter 7?

Thanks guys, you have been great since I joined!

[free2breathe]

We filed pro se, as we are well below median with no assets. In my opinion though, charging $200 for the means test seems crazy. I would think that at the initial consultation they would crunch a few numbers to determine which chapter to file and then go from there. However, there are a few people who post on bkforum from Oregon who may be able to give you first-hand knowledge about their experiences. Perhaps someone can even offer hints about attorneys in your area.

[debee]

The fee sounds crazy to me too, but I'm also not in Oregon. In terms of the means test, there's a link at the US Trustee webpage that goes over what to put in the means test line-by-line. If you're feeling a little nervous about whether you did it right, just check the doc here against your entries and see how that works out.

(Also, don't forget that the median income figures have changed and the new ones go into effect for anyone filing Nov.1 or later)

http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/docs/ch7_line_by_line.pdf

[tobee43]

if you are going state you cannot use the federal means test....in many states the means tests not only change by districts they even change county to county in the same district. confusing to say the least.

first if you state allows either federal or state or just state. if it's that you must file within your state bk guidelines you must go to your state site and see if they provide an example of the means test for you. you CANNOT use the federal.

in the state that i live in there is most likely at least 20 different means test.....so be cautious.

[SunshineGal]

I'm confused. The means test is part of the petition so if you retain an attorney they should not charge extra to prepare the means. Are you asking them to run the means test prior to retaining? If so, than I can understand where they would expect to be paid for their time.

[tobee43]

yes, sg....our's is the last part of the actual petition..or it's the last pages...we were in such bad shape we didn't even have to go to part IV....AND the UI is NOT listed on it.....

yes, i agree, i would want to do the means test myself first...which i did only so when we did in fact hire an atty i would have a good idea of where we were.

now interesting enough...we went to more than one atty's that insisted the UI was included and it's clear...... absolutely clear in our county UI is NOT included...

[CoBelle]

If you go to Nolo calculator for the Means Test and put in your zip code, it will calculate the amounts specific to your area. (Well maybe not yet for Nov 1 changes but surely those changes went UP not down.

I found that Nolo did a much better job than my 10k attorney did. And Nolo does the math!!!! Then I just transferred Nolo to the schedules...so easy as Nolo uses the same numbers.
$200 isn't much but I woudn't pay it for something you already have.

[debee]

And if you're not sure where or if to put in something like an FSA account with an employer, or if you don't know whether you get the car ownership expense, etc - use the line-by-line in the link I posted above. The UST has itemized it and includes information about who can claim it and who can't.

The new median incomes are listed in the drop down menu here so you can go find out what yours will be: http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/meanstesting.htm

[tobee43]

If you go to Nolo calculator for the Means Test and put in your zip code, it will calculate the amounts specific to your area. (Well maybe not yet for Nov 1 changes but surely those changes went UP not down.

I found that Nolo did a much better job than my 10k attorney did. And Nolo does the math!!!! Then I just transferred Nolo to the schedules...so easy as Nolo uses the same numbers.
$200 isn't much but I woudn't pay it for something you already have.

good idea...by zip code that's the best way to calculate...since it breaks it right down for you automatically. you may be in a state where you have a choice to file state or federal...you'll have to find that out. then see which exemptions best suit your needs.

[oregonpilot]

The fee sounds crazy to me too, but I'm also not in Oregon. In terms of the means test, there's a link at the US Trustee webpage that goes over what to put in the means test line-by-line. If you're feeling a little nervous about whether you did it right, just check the doc here against your entries and see how that works out.

(Also, don't forget that the median income figures have changed and the new ones go into effect for anyone filing Nov.1 or later)

http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...ne_by_line.pdf

Nicole...
filing B4 Nov 1 1person..42344 2 peeps... $55820
After Nov 1 1 person 43986 2 peeps... 54656

pm me and i can tell you who i used. Their office covers south of Eugene over to the coast and K Falls and Bend

[free2breathe]

Nicole...
filing B4 Nov 1 1person..42344 2 peeps... $55820
After Nov 1 1 person 43986 2 peeps... 54656

pm me and i can tell you who i used. Their office covers south of Eugene over to the coast and K Falls and Bend

See, I just knew some wonderful poster from Oregon would offer help ;)

[tobee43]

See, I just knew some wonderful poster from Oregon would offer help ;)

excuse me?? i AM wonderful and i have a brother in oregon...spent tons of time as a child there so i think i could be considered wonderful...right?? LOL!!!!

[oregonpilot]

See, I just knew some wonderful poster from Oregon would offer help ;)

Well..thank you.
Ahh tobee43. You have some of that OR rain on yah. LOL We could be wallpaperin sisters.

[tobee43]

Well..thank you.
Ahh tobee43. You have some of that OR rain on yah. LOL We could be wallpaperin sisters.

thanks oregon!!! i was feelin a bit left out there for a moment...glad you covered me...on that...(just had to say it!) LOL!!

actually i absolutely LOVE oregon my brother's in ashland, right on the river. it couldn't be more beautiful. i had wished i had taken his offer of buying bb together in ashland about 15 years ago..i'm still kicking myself...

[oregonpilot]

Ashland is really a B.. U.. T.. FUL place. (we're about 1 1/2 hrs north)
River is really nice. (where we are i can walk to the Umpqua River)
WOW what an opportunity that would have been.
Lots of people dont like it here cuz of all the rain...(But we very seldom get snow)
we put a skylight in the kitchen so we could hear the rain better.

hummm..didn't know there was rain named better!!!