ok, moving onto to the next page... Schedule J--- 2 questions & critique

[DebtZombie]

Ok, so im filling out J and am stuck on a few things.
family of 6, only one person works

does this look right???.... and a few questions in here:

rent 1,000
gas/electric 243(budget plan)
water 60
telephone 30
cable 55
cellular 140 (3 phones)
internet 30
trash 16
home maint 50 (we rent)
food 700 (i coupon shop)
clothing 150 (3 teens and a 5 year old, all still growing)
laundry 20
medical/dental 181 ( I have rheumatoid arthritis, included BC for me and my college daughter, 4 is enough and i am way too young to be a grama. this could be higher as hubby needs major major dental work next year and i have a kid who needs braces)
transportation 334 (gas and 2 vehicle registrations)
entertainment 75
auto ins 104
auto 502
haircuts 40
pet care 40 ( st bernard and yorkie)

I am at -57.00 for monthly net

ok, so we own 2 cars, one we own outright and the other (The $502 payment above) we plan on returning and trying to get a loan on a cheaper car sometime soon, which i will probably get for like 300 or so.

so do i list the 502 car payment i have now but WONT have when this is done, or do i list the $300 i am budgeting for another car???? or nothing under auto?

and anything else look funny?

YOU GUYS ARE MY MOST FAVORITE PEOPLE ON THE WHOLE PLANET RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!

[mb10240]

food 700 (i coupon shop)

HHH! We're only a family of 2 and we can't finish the month with less than a $500 grocery bill! Kudos to you, sir.

[DebtZombie]

Ouch mrbrown.. and you may refer to me as Madam! LOL I buy 10 newspapers a week, clip all the coupons, match up the sales and buy ten of whatever is on sale with the coupons. We eat whats in the cupboard and was on sale. I buy in bulk this way, and can usually grocery shop right outta my pantry. I have to, I have 4 kids eating everything in sight. Tried the Sams club thing and over doubled my expenses when I had that membership.

I will be proud to explain to the trustee if they ask me how I feed so many for so cheap, hahahahaha. I may even bring along a grocery receipt showing my typical 50% savings on a cart.

[Pandora]

Debtzombie

I think your expenses are relatively low, especially groceries for a family of 6 - coupons or no. We too use coupons and we're a family of 3 with 4 pets (1 cat, 3 chickens) - our grocery and pet combined are $540 a month. That does not include cleaning supplies, shampoo, razors, laundry soap etc - thats strictly food. Are you above the means or below?


does this look right???.... and a few questions in here:

rent 1,000
gas/electric 243(budget plan) * do you ever break even on this when the 1 year roll-around comes or do you owe a balanace? Factor it in if you owe*

water 60
telephone 30
cable 55
cellular 140 (3 phones)
internet 30
trash 16
home maint 50 (we rent)

food 700 (i coupon shop) *low - see above*

clothing 150 (3 teens and a 5 year old, all still growing)
laundry 20

medical/dental 181 ( I have rheumatoid arthritis, included BC for me and my college daughter, 4 is enough and i am way too young to be a grama. this could be higher as hubby needs major major dental work next year and i have a kid who needs braces) * does this include your insurance premium you pay? Think of everything you will require or have done in a year, including OTC medications. Standard IRS allowance is $60 per person, you're below that by $180. How about any health insurance deductibles you may be required to pay? Those can be put in as well*

transportation 334 (gas and 2 vehicle registrations) *seems low; are pers. property taxes in here? How about inspections, oil changes, mainetance - but you're giving 1 car back, correct?

entertainment 75 *you may be able to up this, but not sure by how much. We were allowed $60 for 3 people*

auto ins 104 *this may go up once you file BK - check to see if you are in a credit profiling state*

auto 502 *If you're giving this up, then it may be counted as DMI unless you can get another car before you file - you cant bank on what you "might" get in the future*

haircuts 40

pet care 40 ( st bernard and yorkie) *I think this may be low - St. bernards are huge dogs - does this account for just food or does it have vet expenses and pet meds in there as well?*

I am at -57.00 for monthly net

ok, so we own 2 cars, one we own outright and the other (The $502 payment above) we plan on returning and trying to get a loan on a cheaper car sometime soon, which i will probably get for like 300 or so.


I see you said you purchase 10 newspapers for coupons - do you have that accounted for somewhere in your budget? Any other subscriptions you have? Count them, they add up.

Also - any AAA or anything like that? How about renters insurance? School lunches / activities?

[tobee43]

Debtzombie......please read carefully what Pandora has highlighted....

these are valid concerns...let me just add one thing here.

personally, i have always prided myself with how little we spent for food for our family. it was great that i could feed our family for so little. when we moved to another state i used that amount in my sch j and it was questioned by the trustee....if you can believe it.

i soon found out where we moved the food cost were over double.....also....i went by what the neighbors told me and the utility companies history records on the place we moved in to, as the basis for our cost. well...you can imagine our shock when as soon as we were here for approx 6 months the electric company got a HUGE increase...i.e. our neighbors insisted they never exceeded over $140 in their 6 years of living here.....when this year they were running over $350 monthly!!!

i'm not saying cheat and either is Pandora...just be realistic and be prepared.

really...it was just last year i was paying $5 for laundry detergent and now that same bottle is costing us $9.00....really!

[Pandora]

i'm not saying cheat and either is Pandora...just be realistic and be prepared.

really...it was just last year i was paying $5 for laundry detergent and now that same bottle is costing us $9.00....really!

Oh God no! Absolutely am not saying that at all. I'm a fly by the legal type of gal

$9 for laundry detergent? Lucky! I pay almost $16 for mine - have to have my Gain Apple Mango Tango! LOL

[Dee]

Do you have any of the following?

Life insurance premiums (if no, with 4 kids you need some!)
Educational expenses for the kids (field trips, school supplies, books, tuition, etc)
Driver's License renewal fees
Charitable contributions

[DebtZombie]

ok, I removed the $502 car payment and made food to 850, added 70 in educational expenses, 80 for school lunches for HS and college kid, (other 2 pack) upped my gas/electric to 322(went online at energy company and averaged out last year bills, bumped recreation to 130(cause of papers and magazine subs) and really went back and looked at some grocery receipts and see about $30 a week for clenaing and household supplies(3700 sq ft house and 6 people and 2 dogs, lots to clean and manage).

life ins and all that good stuff comes outta my check

now i am at 20.07 net

i think thats good, right?

thanks soooooooooooooooo much

[ccsjoe]

Good job Madam.

[JEM]

I agree with the others, some of your numbers seem low. I just came from my attorney's office today and we went over some of our numbers. I was being fairly conservative on my numbers as to not raise flags. He said I had some numbers just way too low. Gas, for instance. I didn't account for *any* extra driving other than the day to day stuff. As he said, I was not accounting for ANY fluctuation at all in gas prices. I mean if gas went up .15/gallon, my numbers would be hosed. LOL

So, I guess in other words, be honest with your numbers, but also realistic, if that makes sense.

[tcreegan]

Hi DZ,

Be sure to use "fresh start" figures and not "broke & trying to stave off BK" figures.

Food looks low, family of 6 should be around $900 IRS allows even more than that.
Clothing looks low, family of 6 is allowed over $250 by IRS standards
Medical is way low, IRS allows $360 for family of 6
Transportation looks a little low, IRS standard is $472, 2 vehicles, west region
Auto insurance...can we assume none of the teenagers are driving yet?
If not I want to know your insurance agent!!
You end up rolling the pet care, haircuts, trips to walmart, etc into 'misc, personal' on line 17 The IRS puts this around $300 for a family of 6
Cell phone bills used to get picked on, probably not anymore but if it gets questioned, explain that it is a necessary expense for your kids personal safety
Same for internet, it is a requirement for school age kids.
For the car payment, I would put the current payment on line 13 and explain the plan to lower the payment with a cheaper car on line 19

I think you are going to be fine on Sched I - Sched J, but if not, get written estimates for the dental work and braces and use them on medical expenses...been there, done that, and it wasn't cheap....

Good job with plowing through the paperwork!

Tom in Colo

[free2breathe]

So what is the difference between the "Collection Financial Standards" and the "Bankruptcy Allowable Living Expenses". Is it acceptable to have stayed within the former or should I have stuck more closely to the latter on my schedule J?

[jmac]

I will say this, i sat through 25 cases the other day waiting for mine to be called, never heard one word about really high deductions....I was kicking myself in the ass since my plan didn't get confirmed because of car payment, should of left it out and raised everything else....If I knew now what i didn't know then i would of went to the court house i was to appear at, looked for a kick ass lawyer couple there stood out, as many have there head in there asses and have no clue. Real wake up call watching it in person versus say so on the internet.

[tobee43]

Oh God no! Absolutely am not saying that at all. I'm a fly by the legal type of gal

$9 for laundry detergent? Lucky! I pay almost $16 for mine - have to have my Gain Apple Mango Tango! LOL

i just recalled a few posts were you warned people of possible upcoming house repairs etc. and most people do not think forward, which is sooooo very important.

OF::::::::ok...pandora...and this does certain NOT help the op...ROFL...i only use GAIN...LOL!!!! so i guess our clothes smell the same!! TOO MUCH!!!! it's nice to smell good enough to eat....???

[tobee43]

I will say this, i sat through 25 cases the other day waiting for mine to be called, never heard one word about really high deductions....I was kicking myself in the ass since my plan didn't get confirmed because of car payment, should of left it out and raised everything else....If I knew now what i didn't know then i would of went to the court house i was to appear at, looked for a kick ass lawyer couple there stood out, as many have there head in there asses and have no clue. Real wake up call watching it in person versus say so on the internet.

jm...your so correct. actually...had there been any question your atty should have advised you...just as this board ...up this lower that...etc.

funny thing is....WE were IN FACT questioned by the trustee in reference to FOOD cost......she thought they were TOO LOW and remarked about she's was glad her husband didn't see my food budget!! the funnier part was at first she thought it was our clothing expenses.....and i said OH NO!!!! ...that food!!!...she laughed and said really??? that's when i said, i think she may be looking at the wrong line??? and she was...TRUE story!!!

so it does happy at the 341...it broke the ice in our situation...well that and our atty showing up with zipper completely down and wrinkled up suit. but didn't matter he did his job just fine....