need advice . . . panicking

[october99]

Was planning to file in Jan. DH has sudden consideration for employment starting in Nov (he's been unemployed since Sept). They are pushing for an asap start date. If he takes the position it will put me out of a chapter 7 fast.

I can pass the means test (over median) for May-Oct. I will have to use the new median which totally sucks since it went down, but I can probably still pass (by the skin of my nose).

So if I were to file the first week of Nov and he starts the job in the second week of Nov, how would that play into things? To whom or when would I disclose this possibility?

I am really sick over all of this.

[ccsjoe]

Well, if you file during the month of November your means test would encompass through the end of calendar month October. However trustee may request bank statements and pay stubs up to the date of filing. Additionally, if the trustee asks whether you've had a change in employment and/or income since filing, you would have to answer truthfully. That may or may not push you into a dismissal or a 13. I've seen instances of trustees saying congratulations on your new job, good luck in the future and issue a report of no distribution, but I've also seen where there are issues requiring amended Schedules I and J. And is the UST does an audit, there will likely be an issue.

No easy or clear cut answer here. Sorry.

[tobee43]

ahhhh....actually and usually at the 341 the trustee asks direct questions in reference to your employment status.........so i do think it will possibly effect the outcome. (please NO killing the messenger).

[ccsjoe]

Let me expand on this. You are going to hate what I'm about to say but..if your husband starts a job immediately after your filing date, it's going to scream abuse to anyone who scrutinizes your case, simply because, well, you very likely had knowledge of the new source of income prior to the filing itself (we're talking filing one week, starting new job the next). I'm not saying this is what your intent is, don't take it that way. I'm saying that's how it will be seen and yes, very likely it may affect the outcome.

[tobee43]

Let me expand on this. You are going to hate what I'm about to say but..if your husband starts a job immediately after your filing date, it's going to scream abuse to anyone who scrutinizes your case, simply because, well, you very likely had knowledge of the new source of income prior to the filing itself (we're talking filing one week, starting new job the next). I'm not saying this is what your intent is, don't take it that way. I'm saying that's how it will be seen and yes, very likely it may affect the outcome.

sorry oct....i totally agree with joe. this is NOT the best situation for you....you need to see really if it's worth taking the job or getting rid of the debt. not an easy situation to be in at all.....

[october99]

Thanks guys. This is all pretty much what I thought. I just wanted some other opinions. I don't think I can talk him out of taking the position. I guess it's time to start seeing what all these cc offers are about and catch up on the mortgage instead of paying the attorney.

The most unfortunate part is that it's going right back into the same awful situation in the same industry in the same city that was ruining our family. I'll probably be filing for divorce in a year if things go the way they have for the past 3 years when he worked up there in that crap hole. I can't believe that it is the f@($!ng banks ruining my life in so many ways.

To top it all off this all came crashing down on my birthday. Happy freaking birthday to me.

[DebtZombie]

Happy Birthday October99!!!! Sorry you are having such a tought time, I feel your pain!

[tobee43]

Thanks guys. This is all pretty much what I thought. I just wanted some other opinions. I don't think I can talk him out of taking the position. I guess it's time to start seeing what all these cc offers are about and catch up on the mortgage instead of paying the attorney.

The most unfortunate part is that it's going right back into the same awful situation in the same industry in the same city that was ruining our family. I'll probably be filing for divorce in a year if things go the way they have for the past 3 years when he worked up there in that crap hole. I can't believe that it is the f@($!ng banks ruining my life in so many ways.

To top it all off this all came crashing down on my birthday. Happy freaking birthday to me.

ahhhhhhhh....oct....i'm so sorry!! and a belated happy birthday to you!

are you both really certain taking this job is worth this??? is it possible to delay the job search for just a few more months.

we ended up leaving our home after 33 years...i can't tell you how difficult and how it pulled our heart strings apart...but we needed to just clear our thoughts and emotions and sit down and face a sound, realistic business decision for the betterment of our futures. that's when we decided to move to another state....leaving everything behind and literally selling the clothes off our backs...and we are OLD!! i thought how are we going to do this???

our entire lives....40 years gone in a nanosecond....down the tubes.....or is it?? looking back it was by far the best decision we ever made...(other than having our kids...) and that's only when i'm in the mood for them....

seriously, please....look at the BIG picture and think about this carefully. especially if your marriage is not at it's best. you need to really plan.

best of luck and i'm trying to be sorry about your birthday....as a woman i stopped counting them a few years ago...LOL!!! just look forward to tomorrow and everyday as my birthday!! be better please.

[Pandora]

Thanks guys. This is all pretty much what I thought. I just wanted some other opinions. I don't think I can talk him out of taking the position. I guess it's time to start seeing what all these cc offers are about and catch up on the mortgage instead of paying the attorney.

The most unfortunate part is that it's going right back into the same awful situation in the same industry in the same city that was ruining our family. I'll probably be filing for divorce in a year if things go the way they have for the past 3 years when he worked up there in that crap hole. I can't believe that it is the f@($!ng banks ruining my life in so many ways.

To top it all off this all came crashing down on my birthday. Happy freaking birthday to me.

Dont do that! You already know you're in over your head - why are you going to use credit cards to pay bills / purchase things? Worse case is you end up in a Ch. 13 depending on your DMI, exemptions, etc. Remember you can still file a Ch. 7 and be over median if you show neg DMI.

Your husband has the opportunity to get a job - take it. Jobs are scarce these days and those that are being offered them are extremely lucky. Trust me - took 8 months for my husband to find a job -and he took it even though it was 1/3 of his previous salary. A job is a job.

The bank isnt ruining your life - they're a method and means if you choose to use them (i.e., get new credit cards as stated above) - but in the end its up to you, its a choice one makes. You need to look at this differently October99 - here you're contemplating divorce because of your husbands job offer based on previous experience. The job is just that - A JOB. Home life is separate. If you get a mindset of your hubby is doing what he has to do for the good of his family, then maybe you'll look at things differently.

Happy belated birthday to you.

[backtoschool]

After I lost my job, I put off taking another job so that I could file chapter 7. Like tobee43, I left my former life behind and moved to another state where I could earn less money and work in a different environment. It will be very difficult to regather the momentum to file for chapter 7 if you stop now. If you go ahead with the filling, even if you are pushed into a chapter 13, it will be better than not addressing the problem at all.

The best alternative would be to put off the starting date as long as possible. Every week will make a difference in your situation.

[Dee]

we ended up leaving our home after 33 years...i can't tell you how difficult and how it pulled our heart strings apart...but we needed to just clear our thoughts and emotions and sit down and face a sound, realistic business decision for the betterment of our futures. that's when we decided to move to another state....leaving everything behind and literally selling the clothes off our backs...and we are OLD!! i thought how are we going to do this???

our entire lives....40 years gone in a nanosecond....down the tubes.....or is it?? looking back it was by far the best decision we ever made...(other than having our kids...) and that's only when i'm in the mood for them....

seriously, please....look at the BIG picture and think about this carefully. especially if your marriage is not at it's best. you need to really plan.

I hear you tobee! We did the same thing. Sold the house and almost everything in it and moved across the country to a place where we didn't know anyone, all because I got a good opportunity for a job. It was hard, but it's been one of the best decisions we ever made - even with the BK. We would have ended up in BK if we had stayed where we were, but we would have been really unhappy about our whole situation, not just the BK. As it is now, our marriage is stronger than ever and when the stress gets to be too much we just go out and sit on the beach for a while. That seems to make it all go away.

[tobee43]

I hear you tobee! We did the same thing. Sold the house and almost everything in it and moved across the country to a place where we didn't know anyone, all because I got a good opportunity for a job. It was hard, but it's been one of the best decisions we ever made - even with the BK. We would have ended up in BK if we had stayed where we were, but we would have been really unhappy about our whole situation, not just the BK. As it is now, our marriage is stronger than ever and when the stress gets to be too much we just go out and sit on the beach for a while. That seems to make it all go away.

dee we are in florida too!! it wasn't my first choice since i'm from san fran...but it was always by other half's dream...and also reasonable enough living expenses that we would or should be fine with just a pension and ss....which we are, but some of the cost like the food is double!! we are adjusting...but looking back...just like you...those problems would have never gone away.

we just moved 1700 miles not across country...i did that after college...wish i had stayed in san fran...but life takes you were it does and you just sometimes have to go with the flow. i'm tried of fighting it...so i'm just riding it now and feeling so much better...

we don't even feel badly about losing the house...we will never lose the memories...ever because they aren't in the house they are in the heart...

[october99]

You are all so awesome. I really need the support right now.

Pandora - I'm not talking about lines of credit, I'm talking about the settlement/program offers I've started getting now that I am VERY far behind on payments. They wouldn't even talk to me about lower interest/payments until now and I've just been blowing them off. The reason I said that about the banks ruining me is that DH has been working for one of the big banks for years and I thought he was set against going back, but the money and job itself is much too attractive to deter him. I hate this banking town. The only thing here are banks and healthcare. I used to work for the biggest hospital and he for the biggest bank, then I got the heck outta there when I finally landed a solid work-at-home job. Banks are evil on the inside looking out as well. It is such a high-stress environment. Ugh. He was not a very nice person when working there, but he is assuring me that it won't happen again and that with the better pay there will be more for childcare which has largely been my burden. It was very hard getting through those years working FT from home with as little as 12 hours of childcare/week and him working 12 hour days with long commutes.

I'm still going to let the house foreclose even if not filing bk. It's underwater and the neighborhood has detiorated fast. It does not appear that my lender is suing for defiency balances as moderate as mine will be. I can't have my wages garnished here and we should have enough to (hopefully) settle some of the debts over the course of the next year. If I get sued it will suck but we'll deal with it.

The hardest part is that I really want another child and it probably just won't be possible with the hectic pace that life will present and the debt hanging over us. It was such a silver lining that filing bk was going to give us a chance to have another. I just wanted to experience having ONE baby and give the twins a little brother/sister to adore. *Sigh* I'm 36 with fertility issues and soon enough no doctor will want to help us anymore. We have 12 embryos that we will probably never use.

So that's my pity party. Thx for listening. It helps to get it out so I don't lose it every few hours and break down. All my friends are having such hard times right now and family is even worse. It's very isolating.

[dumpinmydebt]

I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through.

Is there a particular reason he must have this job? I mean, if he hates the industry so much that it changes who his personality, it sounds like he needs a new career. Working long hours isn't and excuse to be an A**. My husband works 50-60 hours a week, and many times will work 12 hours, but he doesn't come home acting like a jerk. The difference is that he loves his job. Of course, there are bad days and things that he doesn't like. But he loves being a chef at the end of the day. What's the point in having a job that makes your life crap and makes you hate every minute?

Money does not equal happiness. His attitude issues don't really have much to do with money. Personally, I believe happiness is a choice. He can't allow money to dictate his emotions. My husband and I are dirt poor, but happier than ever.

Is Chapter 13 an option? I mean, it may not be a 7, but it's better than nothing, right?

It seems like you both have different goals for life. He wants to work, and you want a child. You need to get on the same page. You need to tell him how you feel about everything.

[tcreegan]

Hi October,

No worries about being isolated....you are in good company around here!

I second dumpinmydebt, why not a Ch 13? Sounds like it is right up your alley, and if things get worse you can convert to a Ch 7

I wouldn't bet on the twins adoring a new sibling, could be the opposite and the new one would have twice as much to rebel against...

Hang in there....

Tom in Colo