top Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Will you look over my expenses and give help

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Will you look over my expenses and give help

    Hi Everyone:

    I will be filing on Nov. 4th, so less then 30 days for me...I just want to make sure I've got everything going right. We had to wait 6 months for severance to drop off. With just my salary I am below the median for a family of 5 in my state.

    We are hoping to use the argument that hubby's UI is a SS benefit and thus not counted to pass the means.

    Please look over my expenses and any and all help appreciated.

    Family of Five

    House 1433
    RE Taxes 339
    Car Payment 375
    Old or High Mileage Car Allowance 200
    Electricity & Heating Fuel 300
    401 K Contribution (monthly) 332.62
    Medical Coverage (dental, vision & medical) 207.12
    Medical FSA Contribution 58.32
    Company Life Insurance Contribution 24.02
    Taxes - Medicare 76.46
    Taxes - Federal 159.36
    Taxes - State 214.90
    Taxes - Social Security 326.90
    B of A Home Equity Payment 360
    Water & Sewer 70
    Garbage 16
    Telephone 48
    Home Maintenance 90
    Housekeeping Supplies 125
    Personal Care Products & Services** 115
    Cell Service 195
    Food 804 (includes extra 5%)
    Cable/Internet 85
    Apparel & Services 310
    Medical & Dental Expenses 300 (type 1 diabetic child
    Education Expenses (school supplies, fees) 125
    Transporation - Operating Costs 588 (2 cars)
    License Plate / DL Renewal - Jan & July ($280 yr) 23
    AAA Yearly Dues 14
    Recreation, GS, Newspapers, & Misc. 90
    Birthday's and Christmas 40
    Homeowners Insurance - 137
    HOA Dues * 10
    Car Insurance 309
    Grand Total: $7,900.70



    Gross Pay 5546.98
    Unemployment 1540
    Total Income: 7086.98
    $7,900.70
    Disposable Monies -813.72
    Last edited by Fallonedward; 10-08-2010, 03:52 PM. Reason: fix an error
    Chapter 7 filed 11/4/10 ---- 341 Meeting 12/1/10 ---- Discharge 1/31/2011.

    #2
    I'm a little confused because you say "current take home" but you include withholding taxes in your expenses. So what is your net pay? Also, you can also include anticipated tax on UI in you expenses.
    Filed Chapter 7: 7/3/09
    341 Hearing: 8/6/09 - Went Smoothly!
    Discharged: 11/30/2009
    Closed: 12/16/2009

    Comment


      #3
      It should say Gross Pay, that is why I included the taxes and such...thanks
      Chapter 7 filed 11/4/10 ---- 341 Meeting 12/1/10 ---- Discharge 1/31/2011.

      Comment


        #4
        Is the 401k contribution mandatory or optional? If it's optional it might raise a red flag....but then again you have so much negative DMI it might not matter.
        This post does not constitute legal advice. If you use my advice in place of a lawyer, God help you.

        Comment


          #5
          It is optional, but my company has no pension.

          Originally posted by rjmwx81 View Post
          Is the 401k contribution mandatory or optional? If it's optional it might raise a red flag....but then again you have so much negative DMI it might not matter.
          Chapter 7 filed 11/4/10 ---- 341 Meeting 12/1/10 ---- Discharge 1/31/2011.

          Comment


            #6
            If your DMI wasn't so far in the negative it might draw attention then. However, even if the trustee disallowed that expense you've still got a negative DMI so you should be pretty safe anyway. In general, though, optional contributions would, I think, be disallowed. Otherwise everyone would just set their monthly optional retirement savings to show a zero or negative DMI.
            This post does not constitute legal advice. If you use my advice in place of a lawyer, God help you.

            Comment


              #7
              Hi Fallonedward,

              Here are some 'possibles' to check out and be ready for:

              The 401K might not be allowed, 9th Circuit ruled it is not a 'necessary' expense in 2008 Egjebjerg v. Anderson
              This probably varies by Circuit/Court/Trustee, something to check up on local practice
              (and watch out, the rules are different between Ch 7 and Ch 13 where 401K payments are specificaly allowed)

              Not all districts allow the $200 'old car' allowance. (Supreme Court deciding this as we speak) Something else to check up on local practices

              You might get some quibbling about the cell phone bill, but argue it is necessary for the safety of the kids.

              I didn't see anything else problematic....

              Hope the filing goes well for you!

              Tom in Colo
              Ch7 filed 5/12/2010.....341 meeting 6/30/2010....report of no distribution 8/15/2010.....discharged 10/01/2010.....closed 11/09/2010

              Comment


                #8
                Tom, thanks for the help...

                so if I take out these two items below, it will make my dmi around -290 (or so). I think I should still be ok, if they try and put me in a 13, the trustee will have to add in the $650 payback of my 401K loan and 2nd mortgage payment. Those numbers put me about a thousand negative.


                Old or High Mileage Car Allowance 200
                401 K Contribution (monthly) 332.62


                Originally posted by tcreegan View Post
                Hi Fallonedward,

                Here are some 'possibles' to check out and be ready for:

                The 401K might not be allowed, 9th Circuit ruled it is not a 'necessary' expense in 2008 Egjebjerg v. Anderson
                This probably varies by Circuit/Court/Trustee, something to check up on local practice
                (and watch out, the rules are different between Ch 7 and Ch 13 where 401K payments are specificaly allowed)

                Not all districts allow the $200 'old car' allowance. (Supreme Court deciding this as we speak) Something else to check up on local practices

                You might get some quibbling about the cell phone bill, but argue it is necessary for the safety of the kids.

                I didn't see anything else problematic....

                Hope the filing goes well for you!

                Tom in Colo
                Chapter 7 filed 11/4/10 ---- 341 Meeting 12/1/10 ---- Discharge 1/31/2011.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Are there any expenses that anyone thinks I'm forgetting?
                  Chapter 7 filed 11/4/10 ---- 341 Meeting 12/1/10 ---- Discharge 1/31/2011.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    See the notes next to all of your expenses: If there is not a comment, that expense is not a problem.

                    House 1433
                    RE Taxes 339
                    Car Payment 375
                    Old or High Mileage Car Allowance 200 this is not part of Schedule J only the means test
                    401 K Contribution (monthly) 332.62 This will be considered a voluntary expense, and most likely not allowed by TT
                    Medical Coverage (dental, vision & medical) 207.12
                    Medical FSA Contribution 58.32
                    Company Life Insurance Contribution 24.02
                    Taxes - Medicare 76.46
                    Taxes - Federal 159.36
                    Taxes - State 214.90
                    Taxes - Social Security 326.90
                    B of A Home Equity Payment 360
                    Water & Sewer 70
                    Garbage 16
                    Telephone 48
                    Home Maintenance 90
                    Housekeeping Supplies 125
                    Personal Care Products & Services** 115
                    Cell Service 195
                    Food 804 (includes extra 5%)
                    Cable/Internet 85
                    Apparel & Services 310 What do you mean by "Apparel & Services"
                    Medical & Dental Expenses 300 (type 1 diabetic child
                    Education Expenses (school supplies, fees) 125
                    Transporation - Operating Costs 588 (2 cars) I'm sure you mean like gas for your vehicle and maintenance, correct?
                    License Plate / DL Renewal - Jan & July ($280 yr) 23
                    AAA Yearly Dues 14
                    Recreation, GS, Newspapers, & Misc. 90 I don't think I would include $90 for Recreation
                    Birthday's and Christmas 40 I woudn't include birthday's and Christmas in your Schedule "J".

                    Homeowners Insurance - 137
                    HOA Dues * 10
                    Car Insurance 309
                    Grand Total: $7,900.70



                    Gross Pay 5546.98
                    Unemployment 1540
                    Total Income: 7086.98
                    $7,900.70
                    Disposable Monies -813.72

                    Even at tht it totals: $7236.70 excluding the ones that I noted, with a total gross income of $7086.70 (inc. UI), you still have a -$149.72 DMI, which is a little more where it should be. You don't want to have two big of a negative DMI showing on your Schedule J either.
                    Last edited by 2manybills; 10-08-2010, 05:18 PM. Reason: To bold comments
                    Filed Chapter 7: 7/3/09
                    341 Hearing: 8/6/09 - Went Smoothly!
                    Discharged: 11/30/2009
                    Closed: 12/16/2009

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks 2many, I was using the IRS guidelines listed below, so the names would be the same.

                      IRS Allowables

                      Collection Financial Standards for Food, Clothing and Other Items

                      Expense One Person Two Persons Three Persons Four Persons Five Persons 5%
                      Food* $293 $537 $626 $752 $829
                      Housekeeping supplies $28 $66 $61 $74 $126
                      Apparel & services $86 $162 $209 $244 $321
                      Personal care products & services**** $32 $55 $59 $66 $118
                      Miscellaneous $87 $165 $197 $235 $287
                      Mortgage $1,022 $1,200 $1,265 $1,433 $1,433
                      Transporation - Operating Costs n/a n/a n/a n/a $588
                      Transporation - Ownership Costs n/a n/a n/a n/a $496
                      Health Care Expenses $60 $120 $180 $240 $300 60
                      Total $1,608 $2,305 $2,597 $3,044 $4,500 $3,349 1633
                      588
                      More than four persons Additional Amount Per Person 375
                      For each additional person, add to four-person total allowance: $262.00 262/5 300
                      2956
                      Expense One Person Two Persons Three Persons Four Persons
                      Food & Clothing (Apparel & Services)* $379 $699 $835 $996
                      5% of Food & Clothing $19 $35 $42 $50

                      More than four persons Additional Amount Per Person
                      Food & Clothing (Apparel & Services)* $190
                      5% of Food & Clothing $10

                      Collection Financial Standards for Health Care Expenses


                      Out of Pocket Costs
                      Under 65 $60
                      65 and Older $144


                      Local Housing and Utilities Standards*
                      1 Person 2 People 3 People 4 People 5 People
                      County FIPS Code Non-Mortgage Mortgage Rent Non-Mortgage Mortgage Rent Non-Mortgage Mortgage Rent Non-Mortgage Non-Mortgage Mortgage Rent
                      Oakland County 26125 $435 $1,022 $511 $1,200 $538 $1,265 $600 $610 $1,433


                      IRS LOCAL TRANSPORTATION* EXPENSE STANDARDS
                      Midwest Census Region

                      Operating Costs
                      Region One Car Two Cars
                      Detroit $294 $588
                      Chapter 7 filed 11/4/10 ---- 341 Meeting 12/1/10 ---- Discharge 1/31/2011.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Schedule J is different than the means test. On the means test you will put the IRS Allowable expenses, but on Schedule J you will have actual expenses. But $800 on food for 5 people, totally a reasonable expense. Geez, we are 2 and I never get out for under $150 or so. It's easy to do at the market and stuff.

                        Are you planning on filing pro se, or have you hired an attorney?
                        Filed Chapter 7: 7/3/09
                        341 Hearing: 8/6/09 - Went Smoothly!
                        Discharged: 11/30/2009
                        Closed: 12/16/2009

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks for the help, we are using an attorney

                          Originally posted by 2manybills View Post
                          Schedule J is different than the means test. On the means test you will put the IRS Allowable expenses, but on Schedule J you will have actual expenses. But $800 on food for 5 people, totally a reasonable expense. Geez, we are 2 and I never get out for under $150 or so. It's easy to do at the market and stuff.

                          Are you planning on filing pro se, or have you hired an attorney?
                          Chapter 7 filed 11/4/10 ---- 341 Meeting 12/1/10 ---- Discharge 1/31/2011.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi again Fallonedward,

                            You seem good to go....

                            You brought up a point I have seen in a couple cases where the court ruled against a Ch 7 dismissal for +DMI b/c under the different rules for Ch 13 there would be no $$ to fund the plan.

                            I think you are ahead of the game, roll on...

                            Tom in Colo
                            Ch7 filed 5/12/2010.....341 meeting 6/30/2010....report of no distribution 8/15/2010.....discharged 10/01/2010.....closed 11/09/2010

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Fallen..

                              You're allowed recreation and b-day/christmas expenses in most cases. We are a family of 3 and we were allowed $60 a month for recreation and $50 monthly for bday/christmas.

                              I think your 401K might be questioned given its over $300, but again - in most cases 401K contributions are allowed. I think my husband does $100 a payperiod as well as we must take out an additional $100 to pay extra towards taxes due to SSD. Everything was allowed.

                              Comment

                              bottom Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X