Chapter 7 and 911 Settlement

[despritfreya]

Agreeing with you B2S, I believe there are other outs as well. First, this settlement is like/as is/a health premium or insurance for a health maintenance issue. She/he was not sick at the time. What did not exist cannot be listed. I believe the bk Judge would throw it out in a simple answer to the complaint to open the case. That Trustee is clearly an AH and a greedy un-fathered person. Depending upon the discharge that our OP hasn't listed (or I missed) there may be a S.O.L. on his ability to open the case. There is clearly no intent of fraud and our OP has had salt laid into the already open wound of 911. I don't think it will go anywhere but to feed lawyers. 'Hub

In response,

One must understand the Code and the role of a Trustee. The Trustee (no matter how wrong WE think he is) has a duty to administer assets. If he fails in that duty he can be sued by the creditors, His responsibility is to the creditors, not the debtor.

This is not an issue of a debtor's fraud. No one is seeking to revoke a discharge, which has a 1 year limitation. OP is caught in the middle of the Trustee's role, nothing more, nothing less.

An asset that was in existence at the time of the filing IS an asset of the Estate even if not known and/or not listed, no matter how innocent. 11 USC 541(a)(1). OP's cause of action was in existence when the case was filed.

If the case is closed before an asset is administered, "a case may be reopened in the court in which such case was closed to administer assets. . ." 11 USC 305(b). Bankruptcy Rule 5010 DOES NOT put a time limit on when a Motion to Reopen can be filed.

Again, the OP needs to find a way to protect the asset. Either there is an applicable exemption or there needs to be some government intervention to say "this is wrong and we are going to stand behind our 1st responders."

Des.

[backtoschool]

In response,

One must understand the Code and the role of a Trustee. The Trustee (no matter how wrong WE think he is) has a duty to administer assets. If he fails in that duty he can be sued by the creditors, His responsibility is to the creditors, not the debtor.

This is not an issue of a debtor's fraud. No one is seeking to revoke a discharge, which has a 1 year limitation. OP is caught in the middle of the Trustee's role, nothing more, nothing less.

An asset that was in existence at the time of the filing IS an asset of the Estate even if not known and/or not listed, no matter how innocent. 11 USC 541(a)(1). OP's cause of action was in existence when the case was filed.

If the case is closed before an asset is administered, "a case may be reopened in the court in which such case was closed to administer assets. . ." 11 USC 305(b). Bankruptcy Rule 5010 DOES NOT put a time limit on when a Motion to Reopen can be filed.

Again, the OP needs to find a way to protect the asset. Either there is an applicable exemption or there needs to be some government intervention to say "this is wrong and we are going to stand behind our 1st responders."

Des.

But the illness and the compensation for the illness did not exist at the time of filing or for years later in my opinion.

[backtoschool]

As a survivor of 9/11 myself, it breaks my heart that this trustee is going after the OP. I think that a judge will be sympathetic to the OP not the trustee, and I also think that the grounds for claiming the money are very weak. No one knows in advance that they are going to be ill, and no one knows that money will be awarded for said illness. I see no real grounds for the trustee claiming the money here.

[AngelinaCatHub]

In response,

One must understand the Code and the role of a Trustee. The Trustee (no matter how wrong WE think he is) has a duty to administer assets. If he fails in that duty he can be sued by the creditors, His responsibility is to the creditors, not the debtor.

This is not an issue of a debtor's fraud. No one is seeking to revoke a discharge, which has a 1 year limitation. OP is caught in the middle of the Trustee's role, nothing more, nothing less.

An asset that was in existence at the time of the filing IS an asset of the Estate even if not known and/or not listed, no matter how innocent. 11 USC 541(a)(1). OP's cause of action was in existence when the case was filed.

If the case is closed before an asset is administered, "a case may be reopened in the court in which such case was closed to administer assets. . ." 11 USC 305(b). Bankruptcy Rule 5010 DOES NOT put a time limit on when a Motion to Reopen can be filed.

Again, the OP needs to find a way to protect the asset. Either there is an applicable exemption or there needs to be some government intervention to say "this is wrong and we are going to stand behind our 1st responders."

Des.

Des, I'm not disputing the letter of the law. I am disputing the definition of this OP's asset. Did it exist or not? When the hell, are we free of worry in our new start if a Trustee has the pleasure to open a case at any time in the future??? That is just plain BS if this is the case. We will all be indentured servants to the government.

While making this public she could also address her local congressman and senator. State representatives as well. The 911 people to date as same for the Viet Nam Vets have not gotten the recognition that they deserve. We now have a President who states we can "absorb" another attack like this without response. It is time to say enough and this person has the power to do that.

The jerk-orf needling her is a crook plain and simple and if she paid 5K she is entitled to see a complete accounting of the creditors supposedly paid. If not on PACER, in her "nasty-note" she may request that item (if it exists). That may show him the the OP is serious.

This makes my blood boil. 'Hub

[backtoschool]

Des, I'm not disputing the letter of the law. I am disputing the definition of this OP's asset. Did it exist or not? When the hell, are we free of worry in our new start if a Trustee has the pleasure to open a case at any time in the future??? That is just plain BS if this is the case. We will all be indentured servants to the government.

While making this public she could also address her local congressman and senator. State representatives as well. The 911 people to date as same for the Viet Nam Vets have not gotten the recognition that they preserve. We now have a President who states we can "absorb" another attack like this without response. It is time to say enough and this person has the power to do that.

The jerk-orf needling her is a crook plain and simple and if she paid 5K she is entitled to see a complete accounting of the creditors supposedly paid. If not on PACER, in her "nasty-note" she may request that item (if it exists). That may show him the the OP is serious.

This makes my blood boil. 'Hub

I totally agree with you 'Hub. If a trustee can reopen a case at any time, because a potential illness becomes a reality, or if some other "potential" but non existent asset gets created years later, then the entire definition of discharge gets called into question. The trustee has no right to go snooping around for assets that did not exist at the time of filing. I don't think that the trustee has a case here.

[despritfreya]

But the illness and the compensation for the illness did not exist at the time of filing or for years later in my opinion.

The premise behind what is happening to OP is no different that my clients who had Fen Phen or asbestos claims. Bks were filed before anyone knew there was a problem. Class action suit filed, settlement entered into, proceeds turned over to the Trustee. I can imagine there were similar issues when it was discovered that Agent Orange was killing our war heros. In fact, it might be interesting to see if there are any bk cases related to Agent Orange claims. Maybe there is some precedent for keeping the settlement out of the estate. OP if you are reading this, run this by your attorney.

[enuffznuff]

So if I work in a building, and that building has something toxic in it, but I do not know it. I file BK, and 5 years later I am getting sick, and then learn that back when I worked in the building, there was a toxic substance and now there is a class action suit because other people are sick...
the trustee can take the proceeds of the suit, should I win any, because although i did not learn of the illness or the lawsuit until after the fact, because they were caused by an event that occurred prior to filing, it is still an asset of the estate? Even if the illness did not present until after the fact? Sheesh!
(I'm not arguing the point, just clarifying something I'd never even thought of)

I second the whole media idea.

[Gwenfarr]

Hey guys,

Thanks so much for the support, Im afraid the letter of the law may be behind this jerk.
As for the $5000, I went to my meeting, and waited a few months, heard nothing and just assumed the case
was done. It apparently wasn't since over a year later he sent a letter requesting access to my house for an appraisal.
OVER A YEAR LATER!!

I lost my mind. Istarted calling and writing ayone I could find in the eastern district since my house had appreciated over the last year, and I also sank my entire income taxes into improving it, if I had known he could just keep coming after me years later, I would never have done that. I fought back and was offered the $5000 settlement for house and car.

I was told to take it by my lawyer, and I hated it but I did it. Apparently the AH kept my case open for quite some time, cause the letter I got today states he kept it opened until almost 2005! Isnt there precidence where trustees are keeping cases open and harassing debtors? He would definitely fit the bill. I will bet this guy was foaming at the mouth when he found out I had the settlement coming.

I guess I can start the letter writing campaigns again. I can try sending the nasty letter to him and asking for the dispersement list of the $5000 I gave him. What good would that do?

If the creditors have signed off the debt years ago, wouldnt they have to file again to claim any funds I get from the lawsuit?
What if they all dont file?

[Gwenfarr]

I will run Agent Orange by whoever I wind up talking to, but wouldnt that be costly, trying to find that stuff out?

[AngelinaCatHub]

So if I work in a building, and that building has something toxic in it, but I do not know it. I file BK, and 5 years later I am getting sick, and then learn that back when I worked in the building, there was a toxic substance and now there is a class action suit because other people are sick...
the trustee can take the proceeds of the suit, should I win any, because although i did not learn of the illness or the lawsuit until after the fact, because they were caused by an event that occurred prior to filing, it is still an asset of the estate? Even if the illness did not present until after the fact? Sheesh!
(I'm not arguing the point, just clarifying something I'd never even thought of)

I second the whole media idea.

Yes, plain and simple BS. I have assumed the OP is a female. If wrong I apologize. So much for that Congress intent to give a "new start" if this is a perpetual threat. Let's us say I'm stupid enough to wast a dollar on one of those junk lottery tickets (for the schools, oh yeah) and will a couple mil. So five years later some jerk is going to take it from me to pay debts long written off? So what if I save and invest and work hard and in five years accumulate a mil? That can be levied (don't tell 'Bammy, he already wants it now)?

[AngelinaCatHub]

Hey guys,

Thanks so much for the support, Im afraid the letter of the law may be behind this jerk.
As for the $5000, I went to my meeting, and waited a few months, heard nothing and just assumed the case
was done. It apparently wasn't since over a year later he sent a letter requesting access to my house for an appraisal.
OVER A YEAR LATER!!

I lost my mind. Istarted calling and writing ayone I could find in the eastern district since my house had appreciated over the last year, and I also sank my entire income taxes into improving it, if I had known he could just keep coming after me years later, I would never have done that. I fought back and was offered the $5000 settlement for house and car.

I was told to take it by my lawyer, and I hated it but I did it. Apparently the AH kept my case open for quite some time, cause the letter I got today states he kept it opened until almost 2005! Isnt there precidence where trustees are keeping cases open and harassing debtors? He would definitely fit the bill. I will bet this guy was foaming at the mouth when he found out I had the settlement coming.

I guess I can start the letter writing campaigns again. I can try sending the nasty letter to him and asking for the dispersement list of the $5000 I gave him. What good would that do? It would show him you are serious and will defend your position as well as you have had enough of his antics.

If the creditors have signed off the debt years ago, wouldnt they have to file again to claim any funds I get from the lawsuit? He is supposed to evenly distribute it. First to priority if one exists (income tax, etc.) then evenly to others.
What if they all dont file?

You can google agent orange the plus sign case law, the plus sign, bankruptcy. I shall try this myself later. 'Hub

[Gwenfarr]

Hey Angelina,

Yes, Im a woman, its cool.
:-)

I actually think the lottery wouldnt be able to be taken. Ive been reading all afternoon on anything I can find, so basically, I can choke and not breathe, they take the $, then someone else gets lucky on lotto and they are home free.

Gotta love it.

[backtoschool]

Hey Angelina,

Yes, Im a woman, its cool.
:-)

I actually think the lottery wouldnt be able to be taken. Ive been reading all afternoon on anything I can find, so basically, I can choke and not breathe, they take the $, then someone else gets lucky on lotto and they are home free.

Gotta love it.

I have to think that a judge is going to be sympathetic to your case. Also this is the type of case that the NY times, and all the other NYC area media will love to pick up on. Who knows how many cases this trustee keeps open for years, digging for truffles and future gold? The trustee is out of line and doesn't want to lose his/her position as a trustee. If you push back, the trustee will most likely go on to lower hanging fruit.

[AbbeyA]

I'm sorry you are going through this. What an unimaginable scenario you are finding yourself in. What kind of responder were you on 9/11?

[Gwenfarr]

Maybe he will go on to lower hanging fruit, but I doubt it when he is seeing $$$ signs.

I was in the newspaper a couple of times as the only female cop going up for trial in the first few cases.
Maybe I can call the reporter that did that peice and send her everything.