Chapter 7 and 911 Settlement

[Gwenfarr]

Hi,

I already have a call into a lawyer, but Im so upset I thought I would post here and see what you all have to say.

I am a 911 first responder. I filed for bankruptcy in 2002, at that time I did not know I was sick. I went to my meeting within a couple of months and thought it was over with. Over a year later the trustee tried to have my home appraised and to take money from me. I fought this process as unjust and we finally settled on a check for $5000, which he accepted, cashed, and again, I thought this horror was over with. A couple of yrs later I filed for the 911 lawsuit, which still hasn't been ratified by the way, and today I got a letter in the mail stating the trustee is going to try and re-open my bankruptcy case because the settlement I have yet to receive should be seized because I failed to list it on my assets in the original proceeding.

I wasn't sick back then. I didn't know I had a pending lawsuit, I hadn't signed on yet. I don't remember when exactly I signeed onto the suit but it was easily 2004 or 2005. I have been in tears all day, can this jerk really do this?

I can't breathe as it is, and he wants to take the $ and reopen the bankruptcy and now will that follow me for the next 10 years, again!?

[backtoschool]

My heart goes out to you Gwenfarr. I was in Tower 2 on 9/11. It is my understanding that any settlement that happens 181 days or later after your filing is yours to keep. If you were honest about having this lawsuit and settlement in process when you filed, then the trustee has no reason to reopen the case.

If you were already in process with the settlement and didn't disclose it, then the trustee can try to reopen the case, but will probably lose. In any case the trustee cannot just reopen the case without proof that you withheld material information.

[Gwenfarr]

Hi Backtoschool,

You were in Tower 2? How terrible.
Thanks so much for responding. I didn't tell the trustee about the lawsuit because it didn't exist at that time. I didn't know I was sick back then. I am quite positive I didn't sign on to this lawsuit during my bankruptcy, I was just starting to feel the effects of something 'not right' in 2002. It was a couple of more years before I even found out about this class action and signed on. The trustee states in his letter that he wants my cooperation, and he is going to attempt to reopen the case.


Im heartbroken. Thanks for the help.

[backtoschool]

If you didn't even participate in the class action until several years after filing, then the trustee has no good reason to reopen your case.

Have you spoken with an attorney about this?

[Gwenfarr]

I just got the letter today. I flipped out and cried all the way into work. My cousin has a bankruptcy attorney he is going to put me into contact with, so as of this evening, no I haven't spoken to a lawyer yet, hence, my panicked post here.

It was at least 2 years after filing, but from everything I read on the web all afternoon, because the injury itself happened on 911, then whether I knew about it or not, it shows a future payment possibility, so they can lay claim to it, being the injury itself happened before filing for bankruptcy...... At least thats what I can gather from scouring the web all day.

[despritfreya]

First off, I want to thank you for your service and the sacrifice you have made for ALL of us.

Unfortunately, unless you can find an exemption that covers the settlement proceeds or can get your legislators to intervene by creating a retro-active exemption, or persuade the Trustee or the Judge that taking the funds is morally wrong (which it is), there's not much you can do.

The cause of action accrued on 9/11/01 when you responded as your health issues are related to those events. You may have not discovered the problems for years later but the injuries happened before you filed bk. The cause of action was in existence on the day you filed bk and was therefore an asset (unknown at the time) of the estate. Obviously you did not intentionally fail to disclose because you were unaware of the claim. The Trustee has the right to reopen the case to administer an unknown asset and this is exactly what he is doing. The question is whether or not you can protect your right to the recovery under some exemption. I am assuming you filed bk in NY. A cursory review of my bk program shows the following exemptions that might apply (as of today - don't know if they were different back in 2002). I do I know if you can "manipulate" the exemptions to cover your recovery:

Crime victims reparation awards
Volunteer firefighter insurance benefits
Worker's compensation or disability benefits.

There may be others but I am not familiar with NY exemptions. Remember, the exemption needed to be in existence when you filed your case.

You really need to sit down with your attorney. If he is not a "go-getter" maybe he knows an attorney who is willing to take on the system. There must be others in your situation. A united front will go along way. This IS NOT a "class action" issue. It is an issue of getting either the legislative or judicial branch (or both) of government to do what is right.

I wish you the best. Please keep us posted.

Best regards.

Des.

[AngelinaCatHub]

If you didn't even participate in the class action until several years after filing, then the trustee has no good reason to reopen your case.

Have you spoken with an attorney about this?

Agreeing with you B2S, I believe there are other outs as well. First, this settlement is like/as is/a health premium or insurance for a health maintenance issue. She/he was not sick at the time. What did not exist cannot be listed. I believe the bk Judge would throw it out in a simple answer to the complaint to open the case. That Trustee is clearly an AH and a greedy un-fathered person. Depending upon the discharge that our OP hasn't listed (or I missed) there may be a S.O.L. on his ability to open the case. There is clearly no intent of fraud and our OP has had salt laid into the already open wound of 911. I don't think it will go anywhere but to feed lawyers. 'Hub

[Gwenfarr]

I was afraid of what you wrote here. From everything I can find,
what you said matches.

Can he seize it all and bascially cover the entire amount listed on my bankruptcy? If he does that, then I have effectively paid back all of my debt, went through 9 years of hell and credit limbo for nothing, and then STILL have a chapter 7 on my credit record?

Thanks for the well wishes, but this is just so horrible.

[Gwenfarr]

Angelina,

I appreciate your response, I dont understand some of it, you are clearly over my head.
aren't the discharges the same? he tried to get more $ out of me over a year after initial filing, when my
house had appreciated a bit and I put work into it, I offered $5000 and he took it and closed the case as discharged.
If there is any other way to close a bk I am sorry but I dont know what it is, thats all I got.
:-(

It says in his letter that he currently has no authority, but he intends to petition to re-open. I guess I should have a lawyer petition to keep it closed??

But I really enjoyed your description of the trustee. Bravo

[Freddy03]

Wow I'm sorry you have to deal with this as if you haven't gone thru enough. I have no advice but wish you well!

[Gwenfarr]

Thanks Freddie.

I appreciate it.

[AngelinaCatHub]

I was afraid of what you wrote here. From everything I can find,
what you said matches.

Can he seize it all and bascially cover the entire amount listed on my bankruptcy? If he does that, then I have effectively paid back all of my debt, went through 9 years of hell and credit limbo for nothing, and then STILL have a chapter 7 on my credit record?

Thanks for the well wishes, but this is just so horrible.

It is horrible, but not hopeless. Let us put it in a simple term, we all have some relatives. Under the terms described they are ALL likely potential assets after the fact as they could have had a will before your bk and then died two years later. Same deal. We all have a potential of having unknown malady such as cancer before bk, then purchase health insurance and find out a two year tumor was growing. Same deal there.

We are less than two weeks after the anniversary of 911. I would take that letter to the New York times and make some waves. Fox news, API, and other agencies to show what our government is capable of out of compassion for a hero who is down on his/her luck. Give back NOTHING, and make them take it by force if you have to but make it a very loud noise. 'Hub

P.S.
Further thought, send a copy back with a response to that Trustee telling him what you did and where you were on 911 and that you intend to go to press before he acts on his "duty". Do not make it threatening, make it sound as fact that you intend to do this. Not that you might do this as that could be construed as a threat and is illegal. A nasty-note is not illegal if you make it your true intent. Put your contact phone number down and email also and sign it. CC: it to a lawyer as well. Even if you have not talked with one yet, the effect will work.

I have done similar, and got a back down fast. It is worth a try.

I'm so very sorry for your added stress, but you came to the right place for friends and opinions. Take all for what they are, and weigh them in your own mind.

We are with you.

[backtoschool]

Getting a settlement for an illness that is the result of an act of terrorism can hardly be considered fraud. Since the suit was not filed yet when the OP filed bankruptcy, I see no reason to assume that the OP was holding back info that could lead to more money for the estate. I think the BK judge will be very sympathetic here and I think that this should be fought.

[backtoschool]

Compensation for an illness that occurs after the bk is discharged is not an asset at the time of filing is it? I think that not only is the asset unknown, it also didn't exist, which would mean that the trustee has no claim to it.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Angelina,

I appreciate your response, I dont understand some of it, you are clearly over my head.
aren't the discharges the same? he tried to get more $ out of me over a year after initial filing, when my
house had appreciated a bit and I put work into it, I offered $5000 and he took it and closed the case as discharged.
If there is any other way to close a bk I am sorry but I dont know what it is, thats all I got.
:-(

It says in his letter that he currently has no authority, but he intends to petition to re-open. I guess I should have a lawyer petition to keep it closed??

But I really enjoyed your description of the trustee. Bravo

HEY this guy is shaking you down. You should NEVER have paid him 5K if your case was discharged previously. He is a crook plain and simple and this probably will go nowhere. With what you stated, pull those papers with that letter and write the nasty-note that you will be no further harassed, cease and desist from further contact and tell him to do what he thinks he must do, as you will display his whole actions against you, a 911 survivor and hero.