Options?

[Lisa2525]

It looks like my husband and I will have to wait til Feb. To file as we have to include childcare for our new baby for the 6 months lookback in order to pass the means test. My question is how does schedule I and j work once you pass the means test? What questions are on it? Are the deductions the same? Looking 6 months ahead at that point it looks like we will be about 200 dmi due to a annual bonus my husband gets around May.

[Lisa2525]

Let me also add... I would not mind chapter 13 but I am scared to get into payments we can't afford because of a bonus once a year. We are not behind on any of our payments for anything right now. We have 62000 in unsecured debt that we are paying 900 a month on currently but the increase in daycare for the new baby and for our oldest to go to after school care will wipe out what we are paying toward the unsecured debt. Not to mention the daycare increases almost annually and we pay new registration for each annually.

[ccsjoe]

Here's Schedule B6I http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/Rul...006I_1207f.pdf
Here's B6J http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/Rul...006J_1207f.pdf

These schedules are about real income and expenses. They are not a means test, so don't think in terms of deductions. They are forward looking monthly income and expenses.

[Lisa2525]

Thanks so much, that makes more sense. Can I use the actual snout of my rent or do I still have to go by the national standards for my area which are 250 lower than what I actually pay?

[ccsjoe]

Lisa, you're welcome. Everything on schedules I and J are actual amounts. Be prepared to back them up with receipts or bank statement activity if questioned.

[Lisa2525]

Backing it up isn't a problem at all. That's acually one of our other problems as it is- not being to claim what we actually pay on the means test. The national standards for a family of 5 in my area are pretty low.

[ccsjoe]

You do have a line item on the means test for housing an utilities adjustment, where supposedly you can claim the difference between the IRS standards and your reality. I can not speak of anyone having done it successfully for this category though. I would presume it would be heavily scrutinized.

[btbeme]

Lisa, first, if you are still using credit, you need to stop. Second, in most cases it does not hurt to have a planning period before filing - that gives you and your attorney breathing room to make sure your file is clean before submission. Mine was 9 months long, which, according to my attorney, isn't that unusual. Third, if you think that a Feb filing is likely, you are in the range of being able to stop credit card payments, etc - but consult with an attorney first.

Bottom line on expenses is that if they fit under federal and state guidelines, and/or have a very good explanation and track record, and if their continuance is in your best interest, they should pass muster. If you have a bump or two that poke out above the federal or state guidelines, that is what a good attorney and a few months planning can help smooth out. If you have to actually spend more on allowable expenses to qualify, that is where that $900 a month should go for the next 3-6 months. Again, talk to a good attorney.

[Lisa2525]

We actually haven't used a credit card at all in over a year. We have stuck by a strict budget and just been paying then down, but we can't anymore because of the higher childcare. It's such an uncomfotable feeling because next month will be the first time ever not paying. We have never even had a late payment. It's such a hard situation. We've talked to two attorneys and we did do a means test. We are over the means test right now by just a little but that's because the childcare for the new baby obviously wasn't included as he was born 5 weeks ago and our oldest daughters afterschool care wasn't factored in because of the summer and her staying home with me during maternity leave. Once those payments start and have been in effect enough months to average itself out we are no question under. As of right now, we have about $50. Dmi on I believe schedule j even with me working full time so it looks like we'll wait. Like I said. It's very uncomfortable not paying these cards but if we don't I can't afford daycare to go back to work which leaves us in a worse situation! We just can't win.

[ccsjoe]

Hey Lisa, I know exactky what you're saying about feeling uncomfortable with not paying. Take a read at this thread I started a while back when I was dealing with those emotions; I think it'll help as well as give you a smile.

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?60310-Dealing-with-the-stress-of...not-paying

[wnguyen]

I agree with btbeme. Also, one more thing it's good to consider when you plan to file in Feb is the tax refunds. I think it's better for both of you to file the tax return and get the refunds and spend them on legit expenses and then file bk. Depending on your situation and finance, you may or may not have to give up the refunds to the trustee.

[Lisa2525]

Thanks ccsjoe for that reply. That does help. It's amazing how many people are in the same situation. One of the lawyers we consulted with actually did mention filing tax returns immediately in February and paying the attorney with the money but I would like to have the attorney fees paid before hand invade I have questions. It's scary and such a sticky situation I would hate to quit paying the credit cards and go into feb expecting to file only to have something come up that prevents filing. What would be a legit thing to spend thecreturns on without being questioned or throwing up red flags? It definately will not be a huge amount. Maybe 1000 at the most.

[ccsjoe]

Home maintenance, car repairs, new insurance policy or anything healthcare related, even something as basic as stocking up on groceries. Jusf be sure to be able to document where the money went in case you need to.

[btbeme]

Lisa, as you get closer to your filing date, you will want to make sure you spend only on allowable expenses - atty fees, groceries (6 months of non-perishables and all that your freezer will hold), reasonable clothing, auto and homeowners insurance, etc. Some jurisdictions will allow you to pay ahead a month on mortgage, electric, etc but check with your attorney first.

Ourselves, I paid extra for a few months on utilities, stocked the cabinets and freezer, paid school lunches, etc so that we really had NO expenses in the month we filed. It was easier therefore to make sure that we had as little cash on hand as possible as well as gave the attorney a window (rather than a single date) to file. He was able to wait a few days for ... well, whatever he waited for, and so far our filing, 341, and the last 3 weeks since the 341 have been very smooth.

Pre-planning is key. I cannot stress that enough. Find a good attorney - but remember that they cannot necessarily advise you on anything that remotely resembles "gaming" the system.

[tcreegan]

Hi all, Hi Lisa2525,

Like I said. It's very uncomfortable not paying these cards

This feeling passes, especially if you ask the cc company you have been with for years to do you a favor and you find out they don't care about you, only the bottom line......

Good luck w/ your filing and congratulations on the new addition, our first grandchild arrived 2 months ago!

Tom in Colo